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Marko

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Reply with quote  #1 

I have taken Adman's post from another thread as it deserves one of its own.

Adman says:

I am really impatient to learn if the new remasters are a sonic upgrade over my Factory original CDs and Heart and Soul boxset. I remember reading an article where Hooky was raving about that sound quality.
Curtis13

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Reply with quote  #2 
well, i got closer and it sounds pretty great over the old issue
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gabriel

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Reply with quote  #3 
I haven't seen anyone mention this excerpt from Peter Hook's two hour open forum conversation with Paul Morely at Urbis courtesy of Cerysamatic:

The upcoming 'remastered' Joy Division albums are not actually taken from the original album masters - which have been 'misplaced' - and so are slightly different mixes from the originals
Richie

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Reply with quote  #4 

Does that mean they had to recreate the original mix from the studio multitrack tapes, as opposed to just taking the 2-track stereo masters? That's what they did with the Talking Heads albums and it worked out pretty well.. this'll be interesting to hear anyway.

Adman

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Reply with quote  #5 
Hi Curtis13 - glad to hear from someone who has actually heard the remasters!

Are you comparing Closer against the Factory CD, London reissue or the Heart and Soul boxset?

Does the reissue just sound louder or is there a definate improvement in sound quality?

Finally what is the quality of the live disc like - better than a bootleg?



Brett

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Reply with quote  #6 

I couldn't help but notice that the notice put on the front page of the site over the weekend saying "think of these as reissues rather than remasters" has been taken down.  I hope this wasn't at the record label's insistence - if these releases aren't taken from the original masters, then they aren't remasters, merely reissues.  I'm waiting to hear what others have to say before buying these, though the CD packages do look very nice indeed - the less said about the LPs the better!  I'm sure it's intended to be minimal, but for fucks sake, £120 and no proper artwork?! Absolute piss-take.

Curtis13

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Reply with quote  #7 
it does sound louder and much better over london re-issue and the live isc is amazing sound quality, it's soooooo clear
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PhilC

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Reply with quote  #8 

The packaging and the sound of the discs I've listened to so far is excellent....but there's a fair bit of editing to the High Wycombe live disc (it's about five and a half minutes shorter than Journey That Leads to the Sun) and there's an horrendous edit before Interzone on the Factory live disc that wasn't present on Heart and Soul.

Marko

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Reply with quote  #9 

Hi Brett

I removed the reissues reference because, on balance, it was unnecessary speculation on our part. It has been quite difficult getting to the bottom of what's being issued on what date in the UK and the US without trying to work out which recordings are taken from masters or whatever and then classify the releases as reissues or remasters.

Anyway, some of our forum members are very well qualified to tell us exactly how the new CDs differ from the originals - and I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to say. I listened to a bit of Unknown Pleasures earlier and I'm sure it sounded a lot richer ...

Marko



truth

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
the less said about the LPs the better!  I'm sure it's intended to be minimal, but for fucks sake, £120 and no proper artwork?! Absolute piss-take.


That is just the box set, the individual LPs have all the necessary text. I see now that some completists are going to have to buy both the box set plus all the individual LPs....not cheap!
drew

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Anyway, some of our forum members are very well qualified to tell us exactly how the new CDs differ from the originals - and I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to say. I listened to a bit of Unknown Pleasures earlier and I'm sure it sounded a lot richer ...


Can't comment on the albums themselves (well, I can as I've heard pre-release CD-Rs of what are presumably the final versions, though I won't presume to know exactly the provenance of what we have on these reissues as far as the albums themselves go) but yes, I am very well qualified to discuss the live sets

Please note that yes, the band/Warners are aware of the strong desire that 24 Hours should have been included on the Still CD reissue. It's unfathomable why they still didn't include it - while the CD running time as-is tops off near 80minutes, alternatives were suggested that would have made it possible while maintaining everything else that is on this release....

1) UNKNOWN PLEASURES CD2 The Factory, Hulme 13 July 1979
This was taken from a tape in the Gretton archives (presumably - we think it's a different tape than what was used for H&S) and mastered by Warners with no direction from "the team".

While better in most ways than what was on H&S (and the complete gig, too), anoraks will notice that it too has pitch issues. Warners were made aware of this but apparently at too late a date to correct. We are also aware of the other glitches that exist on this version, also which were noted too late to correct.

This gig was the consensus choice of the band for the UP reissue, and yes they were aware it was mostly available on H&S previously. Other suggestions were made, but the band kept coming back to this.


2) CLOSER CD2 University of London Union 8 February 1980
I'll let the other individuals involved out themselves if they choose (but hey, we're all listed in the liner notes for the CD releases), but Duncan provided us with his actual cassette master - which AFAIK wasn't previously digitally transferred - that, after careful digital transfer by a co-conspirator, I then mastered for this release.

We provided it to Warners, who sent it off to their final mastering guys for the final version we have here. It is indeed far better than any circulating version of this gig, in fact I'd go out on a limb and say it sounds better than Duncan's raw-from-tape version itself!

The version released here isn't a far cry from what we provided Warners with. Bernard apparently loves this gig.


3) STILL CD2 Town Hall, High Wycombe 20 February 1980
Same process and provenance as ULU - though Warners did edit down a bit and maximize a tad what was given them. That version did include the small The Eternal soundcheck bit with the sound guys talking about Ian and the bird sounds, but Warners decided to lop it off the final release....

Hooky says this is the best version of LWTUA he's heard on any JD recording.


The entire process from getting Duncan's master tapes until this release day took almost exactly a year... We received Duncan's masters (the cassettes themselves) the first week of September last year. It's been a long, arduous process but I'm glad it's over, and to have my name associated with these releases is something I'll carry in my heart until the day I no longer grace this mortal coil. It's been truly an honor to have been involved in this project so closely, and while challenging at times (to say the least), I'm going to be so bold as to say this project had the potential to be a huge disappointment for all had we not gotten involved when we did.

I only wish we'd been able to intercept the Factory gig sooner -- though I must step back and say it's entirely possible some of the issues we had with the "final" version may have been corrected since the most recent test pressing I heard, from late July. I have not heard the version as-released so I guess I still have to reserve judgement on that one.

Now you know why Duncan's been reluctant to discuss his JD tapes since last year.... I'll not comment on the other gigs he did as I'm not sure where that will lead in the future. Suffice it to say they too were all transferred by the co-conspirator, and mastered by me, at the same time as the others. While mostly as excellent as these, don't get your hopes up too much though. I will say that the Electric Ballroom 1st gen dub Duncan provided (he gave the master itself to Rob Gretton, and it's not been unearthed in the archives as far as we know) has some serious age issues that I don't think can be resolved.

Drew Crumbaugh (that's me in the liners)
Paul

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Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks for the info Drew. Just curious what other shows were brought up when deciding what to include with the Unknown Pleasures disc. Anything we don't know about???

-Paul
presidentjoe

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Reply with quote  #13 
This is excellent news. Ever since I heard of this release I've been anticipating Drew's comments on the remastering but to hear that he's the one who actually did the remastering on ULU and High Wycombe is just perfect!

Still hoping for Drew's comments on the reissue/remaster of Unknown Pleasures, Closer and Still.
Fogface

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Reply with quote  #14 
These are good to buy then, since both Duncan and Drew have been actively involved! Thanks for checking in Drew.
TheRealJon

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Reply with quote  #15 
Duncan: where were you standing to record ULU, or was the recorder taped to a post or something? I was there, so I'd be interested.
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Duncan

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Duncan: where were you standing to record ULU, or was the recorder taped to a post or something? I was there, so I'd be interested.


Ah well you haven't read the liner notes :-)
I was sat in the center of the first row of the balcony.

Duncan
interzone79

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Reply with quote  #17 
Hi Folks,

This week-end, i compared the sound of my original factory cds with the box "heart& soul".
Note that i have an high end stuff(modified cd player, amplifier "atoll" and denon "head-phone" with frequency range 2hz-30 000 hz !...).
All i can say is that the dynamic and the back ground noise are almost the same, but i noticed that the high-frequencies (cymbals, metal noises) have more precision in the factory cds...but it's like quantic physic !..
So, everything depends on our ears & brain and of course on our hi-fi stuff...

bests
drew

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Thanks for the info Drew. Just curious what other shows were brought up when deciding what to include with the Unknown Pleasures disc. Anything we don't know about???


Nothing besides what you'd expect would be considered - Bowdon Vale, Leigh, YMCA, other '79-era shows we all know and love. Nothing of note was unearthed for this project that's not already known about by the community or in general circulation.... As we all know with early JD recordings, each gig had issues that at the end of the day kept it from being in the pole position - either no low-gen or master available, critical errors/flaws with tapes, or poor relative sound quality. The usual...

It was mooted for Still to use Tim's Malvern master, but certain band member(s) rejected that for various reasons. We also considered using the 2nd-gen Moonlight tapes from the 2nd and 3rd April instead of High Wycombe, but again we didn't have truly low-gen tapes to use, and the band liked HW (as of course did we) at the end of the day.

ULU was always the consensus choice for Closer from the beginning from what I understand, even before we had Duncan's masters.
lee

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Reply with quote  #19 

What about the Warsaw gig that Hooky's playing an excerpt from on his myspace site? That could have been a laff


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drew

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Reply with quote  #20 
Just a clarification as I know at least one person was a bit confused...

The tape for the Factory gig is the same "source" as was used on H&S - we know who taped it too. I should have clarified that the version used here is probably at least a generation better than the H&S tape - this is speculation, but if H&S was from a 2nd-generation tape, this is from a 1st-gen tape. The master is still in the taper's possession though.

I could be wrong, of course, but what I am certain of is it's the same root recording of the Factory gig as was on H&S.

drew

discotraxxx

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Reply with quote  #21 
Hello,

will anyone finally contact Bernard Lenoir and propose him a few thousand of Euros to have FINALLY the complete pre-FM soundboard of Paris 1979 ?
This is confirmed that he has it, so pleaaaaaaaaaase, it would be nice to have it finally... Excellent perfo, excellent mixing, far better than incomplete Amsterdam...

See You

Vince
Paul

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Reply with quote  #22 
Thanks for the info Drew.  Too bad they decided against bowdan vale.  I would have loved to have an "official" cd of that gig.

-Paul


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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
The tape for the Factory gig is the same "source" as was used on H&S - we know who taped it too


Hi Drew, I'd be interested to know the answer to that one, we supported JD on this occasion I presume it would have been through the desk as was the norm..

Cheers
indiearchivist

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Reply with quote  #24 
FP, I'll reply privately as I've been in touch with the person who taped it (I'm sure they don't want their name posted on here) - I will try and ask.

Will send you a PM.

Phill

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Reply with quote  #25 
Thanks, drew for the involved and very welcome comments. Can anyone answer why the Derby Ajanta Cinema recording hasn't been mentioned/wasn't considered? The sound on the best boots isn't perfect, but the band's performance, in my opinion, is one of the finest captured on tape, particularly Ian's vocal.
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