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Dave_79

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Reply with quote  #1 
So the Bowdon Vale Youth club gig was 40 years ago today. Amazing to think that after all this time, people still love Joy Division and hold them in such high regard. I bet regardless of what New Order have achieved, that Bernard, Stephen & Peter will have people asking them about JD and Ian until the day they die. Quite a legacy.

Anyway, with the 40 year anniversary of Unknown Pleasures coming up, what, if anything, would you like to see finally released officially? I can think of these, please add any more as you see fit :

Les Bains Douches - Expanded album with full set (I only realised recently that recordings of the whole thing are out there, 7 songs on top of what's on the CD).

Bowdon Vale Youth Club - according to the UP remaster booklet, it was a 'strong contender' for inclusion on the bonus disc

Paradiso, Amsterdam - I believe this to be one of the most bootlegged gigs. Personally I don't think that the 3 songs from it on the LBD disc sound that good. Am I missing something?

Effenaar, Eindhoven - As far as the 4 songs from this on the LBD disc go, it sounds better than Paradiso. I always loved this version of Autosuggestion, which is shown in the Grant Gee documentary.

In A Lonely Place (full length version) - I only recently found out through this site, that a full length version of this exists (other than the New Order one of course). I really thought that the H&S box set 'detail' short demo was all there is. Imagine my surprise to find out there is not just one, but several full length demos of this great, chilling song. I know it came out for RSD on 12" (Take 2), but I am a CD man so am gutted than I cannot buy anything with that song on. Even checked on iTunes and its not there. I do wonder that if the box is ever repressed, would they use the full version next time. Anyway, it would be great to make this available in CD format or at least as a legal download.

Are there other gigs you deem worthy of release?


dmxi

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Reply with quote  #2 
Guildford hall.......hopefully on vinyl soon!
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perspex

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Reply with quote  #3 
I just want a DVD or two of all their performances / TV appearances etc.  I don't care about quality.  It's insane that this stuff hasn't been released officially.

So, specifically:

Granada Reports 20/09/78
What's On 19/07/79
Something Else 15/09/79
Whitehead movie, 1979 (*)
No City Fun movie, 1979 (*)
Bowden Vale 14/03/79
Plan K, 16/10/79 (*)
Apollo 27/10/79
Apollo 28/10/79
Eindhoven 18/01/80
Love Will Tear Us Apart video (3 x videos; double-tracked vocals; Australian version; 1995 version)
Atmosphere video
Wired documentary, 1988
Grant Gee film, 2007

You could even include 'Control'.  I'm always surprised that a two-disc version of either that film or, especially, the Grant Gee film, with some of the above footage included, haven't been released.  It seems crazy that the Whitehead film was viewed and restored for the Gee film, but still remains unreleased.

I've never even seen the three items I marked (*), apart from the short clips of the Whitehead film in the Gee doc.  In the highly unlikely event that anyone has copies of these, I thought I'd point this out.
Just in case someone wants to supply me with a copy.  ;-)  Oh, and the non-HATYM / iTunes Apollo tracks...

dmxi

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Reply with quote  #4 
The closest we got was the substance dvd?
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Dave_79

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Reply with quote  #5 
I find it unbelievable that the small amount of live JD footage that exists cannot be compiled together on DVD. Yes of course the quality will never be great but they really should be available to buy. I don’t have HATYM as I can’t be bothered hooking up the VHS player to watch it and I don’t think that in the year 2019 we should have to resort to said format.

Oh and I don’t have a copy of the full length version of In A Lonely Place. Just putting that out there !
perspex

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Reply with quote  #6 
Yep - completely crazy.  I'm sure that stuff would sell.

You only need to include something on the back along the lines of 'This DVD includes all known Joy Division footage, and although the quality of some of the footage is lower than today's standards, it still represents important footage of this incredible band' etc.

You can tell I don't work in marketing, but you get my drift...

Was the Substance DVD just a DVD rip of the Substance VHS (i.e. Granada Reports, Something Else, Bowden Vale, Dead Souls & Wilderness from the Apollo gigs, LWTUA and Atmosphere videos and the Wired doc)?


perspex

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_79
I don’t have HATYM as I can’t be bothered hooking up the VHS player to watch it and I don’t think that in the year 2019 we should have to resort to said format.

Oh and I don’t have a copy of the full length version of In A Lonely Place. Just putting that out there !


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Dave_79

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Reply with quote  #8 
Thanks. Your marketing blurb would be spot on. Really can’t believe that stuff hasn’t been put out
fage

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Reply with quote  #9 

VHS releases, Plan K and Apollo, haven't been released, and probably never will, due to poor sound quality. We'll probably never see these shots in full. IMHO.

With the rest of the videos, if I'm not mistaken, theres may be copyrights problems, which is also an obstacle to commercial release.

Maybe one day we'll see some snippets on the official YouTube channel, but you shouldn't hope for good quality. For example, JD's channel had an SLC from Bowden in... hmm... "good enough" quality, which was removed and reuploaded at a much worse quality. For what? Who knows...

I don’t think anyone in the team is interested in such things. And in general it is hardly a commercially profitable occupation.


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perspex

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Reply with quote  #10 
Yeah, I agree.
With things like the Apollo gigs, it would presumably be fairly pointless trying to restore them, as the quality is pretty poor anyway.
But I just don't know why they don't release them anyway.  As there'd be minimal preparation, the costs would be pretty low.

Just get a DVD out there.
I imagine a lot of fans would still buy it, even though the footage is available on YouTube.  Most fans, I would think, would want to have this stuff on an official release.

As for the TV performances, it's presumably not out of the question securing rights.  Take the forthcoming 'Movement' box set; there's a few TV items on that.

As I mentioned earlier, a good way to release the stuff would be, for instance, to include the footage as bonus features for the Grant Gee documentary.  That way, even if the footage is poor, people won't worry too much as it's just 'bonus features'.
Whether Mr Gee, or Mr Corbijn in the case of 'Control', would want these things tacked onto their films is another matter, I guess.  But it's a possibility.

Of course, another possibility is, if the 'Movement' box set sells well, a similar 'Unknown Pleasures' or 'Closer' box set may get released, with video material included.  Those may have to wait until they're done with the New Order boxes though.


truth

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Reply with quote  #11 
If anyone can ever find better audio for Plan K then that would really increase the chances of it getting released in some way. It looks pretty good but sounds awful.
Elisium

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Reply with quote  #12 
The soon to be released 'Movement' box set has made me think that similar comprehensive releases could be put together for both 'Unknown Pleasures' and 'Closer'.

The 2007 re-issues were (and still are) excellent in there own right, but how about really going to town and expanding the release to include all studio recording put down when the album was recorded? why not include a repressing of the original vinyl?  Photographs and snippets of information still surface, so there is the chance to have a book as opposed to booklet included with reviews, thoughts, writings and all things relevant to the albums.  More importantly, how about giving the 'treatment' to multiple live concerts of the respective periods? and in a crazily optiistic moment, why can we not have a DVD with all known footage present?

'Unknown Pleasures' and 'Closer' box sets have great potential for the fans......and lets face it we are an optimistic bunch!

jamesx2

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Reply with quote  #13 
I think the 'Movement' box set is way overpriced and don't like the idea of bundling rare videos to justify the price.  They had their chance to release different live sets with UP 2007 re-issue but didn't. Heart & Soul box set got it almost right gathering up most of the remaining tracks (non live). I've already got all the vinyl and cds so don't need to buy them again.

I think the forthcoming Savage book will fill in any remaining gaps and with today's technology you can make your own compilations and use better glue to stick it all together for a fraction of the price.
Dave_79

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Reply with quote  #14 
Agree with the above comment "I've already got all the vinyl and cds so don't need to buy them again." I'm starting to get a bit tired and jaded of buying music I already own in order to get said album 'remastered' (which in some cases sounds worse than what you already have) along with a bonus disc. To be honest since buying the 2007 remasters I've barely listened to the UP & Closer main albums on those sets, as I got them mainly for the live material. I plan to give them another listen soon for comparison and to form my own opinion, but I saw a lot of posts on the Steve Hoffman thread about JD CDs, saying that the 2007 album remasterings were overly loud and compressed, and that the originals sound better. This prompted me to acquire an original Closer, as I had given my 90s Centredate UP & Closer away when I got the 2007's and Heart & Soul box (pozzoli) set (on lookout for original FAC UP too).

Recently picked up a Substance FAC original CD though also read that the 2015 Rhino grey/green sleeve 19 track one (using the +/- remasters) is pretty good. Can anyone vouch for this here? Will try soon to compare the factory original Closer to the 2007 one. Then there's the albums contained within H&S which I believe are different masterings again. It all gets rather baffling really.

Point is this. . . Does another version of UP / Closer / Still / Substance EVER need to come out again? Really? Personally I won't be in the market for a ridiculously priced box set where I have to buy albums I already own again to get extra stuff, like a poster I'll never put up, postcards I'll hardly ever look at, housed in a silly great box that won't fit anywhere in my CD racks. I realise nobody makes you buy anything, but I think they could have put out the 3 x 2007 live sets as stand alone CDs / LPs. I think it would be great to see some more gigs officially released. Perhaps even consult with the fans over which to release, ie some kind of online poll, and then put out the top 5 most requested bootlegs, possibly as limited numbered editions or something.




perspex

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Reply with quote  #15 
Personally, I can't wait for the new 'Movement' box.
I think it is expensive, but it's 'only' £95 on Amazon.  Still expensive, but considerably cheaper than the RRP (and what the NO website is selling it at) of £120.

I'm guessing that a lot of the cost has been spent on acquiring the rights to the various TV performances and, specifically, the Hurrah's footage (which look fairly spectacular based on the clips I've seen).  I think that the DJ who shot this footage has been in talks with the band for a while, so she may have negotiated a good deal (and why wouldn't she) and the label are trying to recoup a bit of this outlay.  I may be completely wrong on this though.

As you probably all know, the Hurrah's gig was only the band's fifth gig and they were still a three-piece.  All three band members sing 2-3 songs each (inc. Steve) and, because all of their equipment was stolen a night or two before the gig, Hooky had to relearn songs usually played on the 6-string on a 4-string bass.  All this makes for a very interesting gig and I'm sure will be worth the money just to see this.  The DJ was on stage with the band and the picture quality looks great, from what I've seen.  Plus, there is tonnes of other rare stuff on the DVD.

I'm also really looking forward to the hardbook book.  I'm hoping that this is a fat, glossy book, with tonnes of photos and information.  It sounds like it could be.

So, it's not just the remastered LP you get; there's demos, a virtual tonne of rare videos and a (hopefully) wonderful book.

The more people who buy this, the more likely that we get further box sets and further rare material.
And to bring this back to Joy Division and the topic in hand, if the box set sells well, they may well decide to release UP & Closer in these formats.

Imagine either of these sets; remastered LP, session tracks, unheard demos, a previously unreleased gig or two, all the video stuff (perhaps including some footage that no one has seen before - Leigh, if it exists, etc.).  All packaged in a nice box, with a beautiful hardback book, including interviews, rare and unseen photos, gigography etc.

Yep - I'd be all over those!
jamesx2

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Reply with quote  #16 
Perspex: Are you sure you don't work in marketing?  (no offence)

Even an authentic Leigh melodica couldn't persuade me to buy UP/Closer for the fourth time. It's strange since JD/early NO were never 'album/tour' bands as they were writing so quickly and didn't promote or tour albums at the time (and all the better for it).

Think I'll get the Morris and Savage books then that will be enough and I can go and spend meaningful time in my allotment.

perspex

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesx2
Perspex: Are you sure you don't work in marketing?  (no offence)/QUOTE]



Even an authentic Leigh melodica couldn't persuade me to buy UP/Closer for the fourth time


Shame, as I believe Hooky has boxes of the things. ;-)

I don’t work in marketing. Honest! Perhaps I should. ;-)
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #18 
The only enticing release would be from these guys:
https://www.mofi.com/
...or mfsl,not sure as per memory gaps which was worth it?

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PatTeasdale

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Reply with quote  #19 
Recordings id like to see released ...regarding of quality ... would be :

Plan K '79 video
Rainbow '80 audio
Bury '80 audio
Erics '79 audio
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