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proto1

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At a Later date
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Reply with quote  #51 
This week's NME:

http://www.nme.com/news/joy-division/80250?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=iancurtis

"Ian Curtis' wife felt 'angry' and 'humiliated' about being subject of 'Love Will Tear Us Apart'".
imkc1

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Reply with quote  #52 
Goodness me. All these years later and she's *still not* over it. Um um um um um.
And what a charming thang to include in an intro.
Moi often wonders what we would hear if Ian told his side of the marriage story.

Personally I always thought that song was about 3 different things.

And soooooo, has anyone read The Book yet?
Lurve to hear yr review!:-)
RiotNrrrd

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by proto1
This week's NME:

http://www.nme.com/news/joy-division/80250?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=iancurtis

"Ian Curtis' wife felt 'angry' and 'humiliated' about being subject of 'Love Will Tear Us Apart'".

The entire forward by Debbie is in the new NME.  I read it tonight.  (It's ... errr, "out there", as they say.)

She talks about how the first met (it begins "I was introduced to Ian in Macclesfield in 1972 by a boy he called his brother.  This singular teenager, who didn't go to the youth club with the other kids, stood posing on the balcony of his parents' flat.  He was wearing eye makeup, tight jeans and a fun-fur jacket; some would have laughed but there was a reverence about that first encounter, and because he appeared to be waiting for the introduction it felt preordained."‡), where they moved to, the place at Barton St., his habits with respect to his writings, his meticulousness etc. ("He was a neat smoker, never allowing ash to accumulate; often the only sound would be the click of his long thumbnail on the filter tip of his Marlboro before he balanced it on the edge of his ashtray to pick up his pen.  He would write a line, put the pen down and then knock more ash from his cigarette."‡)

Nothing Earth-shaking or revelatory but an interesting 2-page read nonetheless.  Worth "finding", if you know what I mean.

‡A short quote is considered 'fair use' innit?

ravachol

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Reply with quote  #54 
I received the book today, had it preordered. I'm a bit dissapointed.
It's a nice object. Very reminiscent of the first deluxe version of "Still", published in 1981.
But nearly all of this stuff was available before. The lyrics were published many many times before and the other stuff, too. You could download most of the stuff in a few minutes. I even had most of the handwritings before.

What I would have expected:

1. Typed versions of ALL the handwritten stuff. Ian's handwriting is sometimes hard to read.

2. That the publishers would have made the effort to engage professionals in deciphering the original lyrics to In a Lonely Place and Ceremony.

3. That they would have engaged professionals in deciphering the most common alternate versions of songs like "Colony" that exist on numerous live recordings.

I like artsy stuff, but it should be more than the cover, the entire object should comply with these high standards. This is exactly what Peter Saville and Joy Division was about. To create one perfect object. Not a Cover and a Content. Even less so a nice cover to camouflage a content sold 100 times before.
Sadly, Ian hasn't left much to be discovered. So at least the few things that still would be worth it, being deciphered and discovered should have been a part of this book.

Dirk

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RiotNrrrd

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Reply with quote  #55 
Well said Dirk.

In the NME there's a picture of the lyric sheet for "Atrocity Exhibition" with an entirely different last verse.  Is this even discussed in the book?

"Situations that will never be resolved,
Freaks of Nature never seen(?) to have evolved.
Observers(?) out of touch most of the time.
I look around, I can't see well(?) that's(?) fine"
proto1

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Reply with quote  #56 
Article in today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/oct/12/ian-curtis-so-this-is-permanence-joy-division

imkc1

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Reply with quote  #57 
"Professionals"-in which fields, in what subjects? Why is or would be their interpretations more valid than anyone else's?

I don't understand the difficulty reading Ian's writing. Try copying the writing and see if that doesn't boost the ease of reading it.


My copy can't get here soon enough. Whee!:-D
imkc1

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Reply with quote  #58 
It just occurred to me, sure Ian was poetic and perhaps indeed the greatest lyricist ever, and a writer, yes, but primarily Ian was a storyteller. Listen to "Heart and Soul" at Preston and see if it don't sound to you like someone telling a tale round the campfire. In a very "legends of olde" sort of way. Same for "Passover" at High Hall. The dominance of the drums and voice. Primitive basics. The language of the drums picking up when the language of the voice is silent. Gather round the campfire to listen, and learn.
350125

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Reply with quote  #59 
Gather round the campfire? Afraid I've missed the point on that one. Unless, of course, lurking in Hooky's garage is an unreleased Graveyard Studios demo tape of 'Willie Had A Goldfish', 'Kumbaya My Lord', 'On Ilkley Moor Bah't 'At' and 'Gertie Ate Some Marmalade'.
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bigal

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Reply with quote  #60 
Got the book, very impressed. Excellent intros from Deborah and Savage. Beautifully packaged. Wonderful to have so much stuff from Ian's own hand all in one book. The extras towards the end of the book seem to have lots of stuff I have never seen before.
After 35 years, I feel pretty lucky that this has now been released.
Wallflower

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Reply with quote  #61 
@ravachol

I'm no expert but I've decoded all of those songs you mentioned. I can send you transcripts, if you'd like.

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imkc1

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Reply with quote  #62 
I'm pretty sure "Willie ate a goldfish" and "gertie ate marmalade" were right before "hey man you shouldn't do that/don't you know you'll stain the carpet" in that mostly unintelligible cover of "Sister Ray."

I *know* Ian sekretly covered "Kumbayah" late one night on his cassette recorder, I just can't prove it. Yet. lol

;-)
:-D
:-)

The Book will be here soon. Until then, silliness abounds. Whee! :-)
albion

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Reply with quote  #63 
Today's Independent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/new-book-on-joy-divisions-ian-curtis-sheds-new-light-on-the-life-of-the-late-singer-9802214.html

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imkc1

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Reply with quote  #64 
^^ That's a very fine review. Thanks for posting the link!:-)
TJ

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Reply with quote  #65 
Anyone picked out the hidden gems and previously unknown stuff in there yet? Sod's law the lyrics to Wilderness were missing, so we'll never know whether Ian made a mistake on the recording version, given the difference between the recorded version and every live take on the first line.

Some interesting setlists that must have dated from late 78/early 79, and a track 'MODD' (page 149 - setlist pretty similar to the "Band on the Wall" date). Also incontrovertible evidence that the mysterious "Soundtrack" was indeed No Love Lost, as the title is crossed out on the written lyric.
Ricardo

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Reply with quote  #66 
I received my book today and took a quick look on it. I'm sure we will find loads of interesting information hidden on the pages of the book, but two of them already got my attention:
 
Pages 164 and 165: Tentative titles for "Unknown Pleasures". Some of them can also be found on Rob Gretton's notebooks.
 
Pages 260 and 261: A letter from Rex Sargeant, who committed suicide a few years ago. If you don't know who was he, just follow this link: http://www.peterhook.co.uk/#/news/the-light-1102-2011-ep-dedicated-to-ronan-rex-sargeant
imkc1

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Reply with quote  #67 
I confess I'm partial to page 185-in a side note, Ian briefly but pointedly critiques his own writing. It's pretty droll lol. :-D
thehappyone

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Reply with quote  #68 

Page 136:  a list of titles from the end of Warsaw / start of Joy Division.  Of the following, these weren't known to have been recorded (beyond rehearsals).

WAVES ?
END OF TIME
REACTION
WIN
PICTURES
VISIONS

In addition, LIVING SPACE (crossed-out) was an earlier title for INTERZONE.

Of course REACTION was included in the August/September rehearsals tape, with PICTURES being from early '78.

It seems that END OF TIME (pp.130-132) and WIN (p.137) seem to have full lyrics, but don't see anything lyrically for REACTION or WAVES, though what's on p.144 may be lyrics to VISIONS.

Page 145:  Another (rehearsal?) setlist, with HOUSE OF DOLLS (not NO LOVE LOST yet), INSIDE THE LINE, LEADERS OF MEN, NOVELTY, (NEWONE! MY MIND) [aka PICTURES], WEIRD ONE (v.short), ICE AGE, AT A LATER DATE, [something very short blotted out], FAILURES.  I wonder if this is the full manifest for the snippet listed on http://www.joydiv.org/rehearsals.htm as tentatively from January 1978, since the 'WEIRD ONE' could be the acoustic-y instrumental one that follows PICTURES.

There's more after p. 148, like two setlists on page 149 that refer to SYNTH NUMBER, and one has the intriguing MADD, and p. 151 has a long list of UP-era tracks, starting off with SOUNDTRACK.   Given this listing looks early 79-ish, this is probably "I Remember Nothing".   SPLIT is crossed off and replaced with DISORDER.  There's 'NEW ONE' at the end, maybe NEW DAWN FADES, which is the only UP track not named in this list (besides IRN).

TJ

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Reply with quote  #69 

It's dawned on me that given Ian's (and to be fair Bernard's later on) propensity for alternative song titles and switching song titles around, some of the setlists we've got actually had other songs played, which rather undermines all the setlist gathering we've done! Safe bet that Synth One is IRN at least until June.

But.....the listings on p149 intrigue:

Improvised (crossed out)
Shadowplay
She's Lost Control
Disorder
Wilderness
Synth Number
Day of the Lords
Auto-suggestion (crossed out, at least that's what it looks like, or Auto something One)
Failures
Insight
Walked in Line
Sister Ray

when the hell is this one from? What we know as Disorder was called "new one" as late as Bowden Vale in March 79. It's almost certainly from the same era as the not quite established "BOTW" tape, as is the next one on the same page:

Walked in Line
She's Lost Control
Shadowplay
MODD?
Day of the Lords
Insight
Synth (IRN presumably)
Disorder
Failures
Sister Ray

Given there weren't that many gigs between the end of 78 and the recording of UP, and we also have this unknown one:

Soundtrack (we now this to be No Love Lost)
New One
Shadowplay
Leaders of Men
Wilderness
Digital
The Kill
Ice Age
Warsaw
Walked in Line
Transmission
---------------
Glass
Sister Ray

which is pretty similar to Bowden Vale

as well as the Marquee 4/3/79

Soundtrack (No Love Lost)
She's Lost Control
Shadowplay
Leaders of Men
Insight
Glass
Digital
Ice Age
Warsaw (crossed out)
Transmission
something unintelligible that might not be a track at all but could say "Synth" at a pinch

From this I suspect that one one we have Soundtrack/New One etc above may be the oldest, probably late 78, and that New One in this instance is SLC. Which begs the question, is the "Wilderness" listing what we know as Wilderness, or a different track that had its name changed? I thought we'd established that what we know as Wilderness had been written during the UP sessions or immediately before. Also a distinct lack of New Dawn Fades (unless it is MODD), which might again suggest the "BOTW" recording is indeed the debut, given how unstructured and raw the version is.

PhilC

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Reply with quote  #70 
Wilderness was presumably written a while before Unknown Pleasures given the presence of the phrase 'Tears in their eyes' on the Factory Sample sleeve...or at least part of the lyric was available for Peter Saville to incorporate into the sleeve design.

MODD is possibly New Dawn Fades? It would make sense...

Re. the switching round of song titles, isn't it possible that while 'Soundtrack' was originally used for No Love Lost, it could also have been used later for I Remember Nothing (as well as 'Synth One') much like the reuse of Incubation as a song title? It would seem strange to have released the Ideal for Living 12" in September 78 calling it No Love Lost if it was being referred to by the band as Soundtrack a few months later? Albeit it's not an impossible scenario given New Order's use of 'Little Boy', 'Tiny Tim' and 'KW1' amongst others on setlists.

Interesting to see Failures on those setlists...I guess we're just unlucky that no live recordings of that song have surfaced.
TJ

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Reply with quote  #71 
Good call Phil re. Wilderness. Hadn't thought of that.

Don't we get Soundtrack and Synth One on the same set at one stage though?

Assuming "Failures" is actually the one we think it is!!!
PhilC

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Reply with quote  #72 
I've seen 'Soundtrack' and 'New One' on the same setlist but I don't think I've seen 'Soundtrack' and 'Synth One'...

I think that the Bowdon Vale setlist that was shown at the Macclesfield exhibition had it as 'Synthesiser One'...unfortunately as No Love Lost was the encore, it wasn't on that setlist!
TJ

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Reply with quote  #73 

Yes, you're right. Bowdon Vale has Synthesiser One. There's what could be two copies of this setlist in the Kevin Cummins book, both in Ian's hand, identical except the one says New One and the other calls it Disorder. Not beyond the realms of possibility that the one may relate to a different gig a few days later with the same set?

Was the Marquee one I was thinking of that may say "Synth" at the bottom and has Soundtrack as the opener.

 

ravachol

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallflower
@ravachol

I'm no expert but I've decoded all of those songs you mentioned. I can send you transcripts, if you'd like.


I would like to read the transcripts, but there is a many pages thread on this forum and it doesn't occur to me that it's easy to transcribe these songs. New Order got it completely wrong. And there are so many different transcripts in this forum alone that it might have been worth the effort and money to let professionals do it.
These are the last two songs Ian wrote and performed with Joy Division. And if you let Faber publish his writings, wouldn't it just be the obvious thing to do?

Dirk

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imkc1

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Reply with quote  #75 
On page 149 second set list, I believe that is "Map D" rather than "MODD."
In reading around Ian's writings, if you will notice, and perhaps try it out for yourself, he tended to make the end stroke of the "o" towards the right, not the left; not as a rule but in general.
His capital "D" was generally unvaried.
The capital "P" sometimes often lost its closing downstroke.
Which leads me to conclude that is a lower-case "a" rather than an "o" even though Ian seemingly rarely used lower-case "a" but maybe he did this time due to a brain fart or a sudden brain flashback to when he first learned cursive writing. OR it could be what is known as a Greek "a" which makes sense too as if you will notice Ian's writing also used other Greek forms of letters, for example "e" and "g."

JMO. YMMV.

As for who what or where "Map D" is was or might have been I have no clue right now....
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