Joy Division Central
Sign up Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
SB

Avatar / Picture

In a Lonely Place
Registered:
Posts: 1,636
Reply with quote  #1 
Guardian
__________________
The revolution is just a t shirt away
dmxi

Avatar / Picture

In a Lonely Place
Registered:
Posts: 2,973
Reply with quote  #2 
as time steadily passes ,JD seem to gain more momentum....
ps:macclesfield is in flames....hope the bodycount won't surpass the known 4!

__________________
"has amnesia ever helped?"-"yes,when the past became a burden...too much to bare!"
markfunnell

Gutz
Registered:
Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #3 
No Shadowplay or New Dawn Fades!!! Still, a pretty good piece.
PatTeasdale

A Means To An End
Registered:
Posts: 962
Reply with quote  #4 
Near impossible to pick a studio top ten .... bit like picking the top ten live tracks
porfirio

Avatar / Picture

Insight
Registered:
Posts: 330
Reply with quote  #5 
Disorder number one! Is this guy nuts? Ok it was a good fun track live, with its fast drive, but nothin more then that and even Interzone (to name one of the early tracks) was much better then Disorder! Shame on the usual journalistic crap
dmxi

Avatar / Picture

In a Lonely Place
Registered:
Posts: 2,973
Reply with quote  #6 
i agree but like everything in human life it's subjective.
__________________
"has amnesia ever helped?"-"yes,when the past became a burden...too much to bare!"
SB

Avatar / Picture

In a Lonely Place
Registered:
Posts: 1,636
Reply with quote  #7 
Yeah it is, that's why I think Day of the Lords is their best track by a mile and no one else does. [biggrin]
__________________
The revolution is just a t shirt away
darren

Avatar / Picture

The Eternal
Registered:
Posts: 1,039
Reply with quote  #8 
there isn't a best track.. shadowplay is shit hot, but so is novelty or colony or no love lost.. 
__________________
am i going to be dead for longer than before i was alive ?
porfirio

Avatar / Picture

Insight
Registered:
Posts: 330
Reply with quote  #9 
I dont agree guys. We must have an objective criteria to value the songs, otherwise we fall on the subjectivistic, romantic, sentimental trap "if he likes it well...its up to him". If we follow this argument we might as well say that Youre no good for me was their best track while we all know that it was by far their punk trash worst. Believe me: this journalist just dont know what hes talking about...as is usual with journalists (me being one I can tell ya from the inside!![biggrin])
PhilC

I Remember Nothing
Registered:
Posts: 494
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by porfirio
I dont agree guys. We must have an objective criteria to value the songs, otherwise we fall on the subjectivistic, romantic, sentimental trap "if he likes it well...its up to him". If we follow this argument we might as well say that Youre no good for me was their best track while we all know that it was by far their punk trash worst. Believe me: this journalist just dont know what hes talking about...as is usual with journalists (me being one I can tell ya from the inside!![biggrin])
Which particular 'objective criteria' do you suggest? Sounds like the sort of crap that the prog rockers would come out with during the punk days. If someone truly believes that You're No Good For Me is the band's best track then what right do you have to tell them they're wrong?
porfirio

Avatar / Picture

Insight
Registered:
Posts: 330
Reply with quote  #11 
I think is up to us to decide the criteria: i would suggest just a couple - the psychological intensity of the lyrics (Means to an End, Isolation, Komakino, Heart and Soul, Decades, Atmosphere come immedially to my mind), the richness and power of sound (Shadowplay, No Love Lost), the precision of the rythmic section (Shes lost control), the creative lines of Hooky (Shes lost control, LWTA) but many more elements can be added...im not a musicologist but Im sure there are also imp elements in the structure of the songs to be considered...
lee

In a Lonely Place
Registered:
Posts: 1,566
Reply with quote  #12 
Bollocks to organised criteria. Music is subjective. Criteria should be personal to the person making the choice. Whilst I would be amazed that there may be someone out there who regards "You're No Good For Me" as their favourite song - if there is well good luck to them. I know someone whose favourite JD song is "Something Must Break". My favourite Jam song is "I've Changed (My Address)". Neither of those two appear on most lists that are somehow accepted by the masses - but who cares? The accepted lists are still as valid or irrelevant as anyone else's. It still perplexes me that despite their varied and wonderful output over the years many people still choose to have "Pink Flag" as their favourite Wire album - but its up to them. Having our lists policed by criteria dilutes that freedom of choice. And by the way Porfirio - I've done a bit of music journalism in my time - that's why I can safely say that the only difference in the lists of journos and non-journos is that the first group have their lists out in print for the world to see. It's not necessarily being romantic or sentimental -  it's being true to yourself - otherwise - to paraphrase you - we fall on the street credibility trap "these are the songs YOU SHOULD like".
__________________
"I Still Can't Hear Meself"
PhilC

I Remember Nothing
Registered:
Posts: 494
Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee
Bollocks to organised criteria. Music is subjective. Criteria should be personal to the person making the choice. Whilst I would be amazed that there may be someone out there who regards "You're No Good For Me" as their favourite song - if there is well good luck to them. I know someone whose favourite JD song is "Something Must Break". My favourite Jam song is "I've Changed (My Address)". Neither of those two appear on most lists that are somehow accepted by the masses - but who cares? The accepted lists are still as valid or irrelevant as anyone else's. It still perplexes me that despite their varied and wonderful output over the years many people still choose to have "Pink Flag" as their favourite Wire album - but its up to them. Having our lists policed by criteria dilutes that freedom of choice. And by the way Porfirio - I've done a bit of music journalism in my time - that's why I can safely say that the only difference in the lists of journos and non-journos is that the first group have their lists out in print for the world to see. It's not necessarily being romantic or sentimental -  it's being true to yourself - otherwise - to paraphrase you - we fall on the street credibility trap "these are the songs YOU SHOULD like".
I quite agree, Lee! If the Grauniad's journalist has Disorder as his fave song then that's his choice (if anything it shows a little more imagination than the usual LWTUA/Atmosphere/Transmission/Lost Control choices) and is neither more valid nor less valid than anyone else's. As for 'psychological intensity' - what's that supposed to mean?
JDcat4

Exercise One
Registered:
Posts: 560
Reply with quote  #14 
This is and should remain a case of personal taste. My personal criteria are lyrics mainly. If the lyrics really mean something to me, then, that song is bound to be at the top of the list. I'll still go down the route of lyrics, unless something about the music of a song, perhaps the way a certain instrument is playing, or a part of the song that stands out, or a guitar riff, or something that jumps out, that will be high on the list as well. Basically, my personal criteria is that either lyrics, music or both have got to mean something to me. But you can't just say what you like and expect most people to like it as well, or you can't try to persuade people to like what you like - music affects us all in different ways, and is purely subjective. Some people might only like a band because of their image, although they're not really music fans if they do. Some people might only like catchy tunes, and mainstream poppy stuff [which I don't like a lot of these days]. Some people like cult bands, some people like stuff that's pretty much always stayed underground and has never entered the mainstream. There's loads of people who like alternative rock, in it's various sub-genres. I don't say "here's what I like and here's what YOU SHOULD also like." I get the impression that a lot of radio stations limit the types of music they play and force-feed modern synth heavy, love story lyrics riddled dance music down the ears of whoever's listening at the time, but if I say what I like, all I say is "this is what I like" and occasionally, I may ask other people what they like, but that is all. 
__________________
E. J. O.
Elisium

Avatar / Picture

No Love Lost
Registered:
Posts: 147
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by porfirio
We must have an objective criteria to value the songs


You cannot be serious with that comment?!?

Music is completely subjective to the listener, nothing more and nothing less.  The beauty is in the ears of the beholder and only the listener can fully appreciate the feeling a particular song generates within them.  There is certainly not a list of acceptable objective criteria required to evaluate the songs which inspire the listener.

We all have our own Joy Division favourites, of course we do.  Picking 'Disorder' is as already pointed out, a welcome change from LWTUA which often appears as a 'list-topper'.




lee

In a Lonely Place
Registered:
Posts: 1,566
Reply with quote  #16 
Re "Disorder".....

My first knowledge of the band was hearing New Order's "In A Lonely Place" on John Peel in '81. Bought "Ceremony" where the label had the (mysterious to me) printed epithet - "Written By Joy Division".

It wasn't till seeing the Paul Slattery pic in Smash Hits in 1983 I realised JD and NO were pretty much the same band. The photo accompanied a copy of the lyrics of "The Eternal" - the words intrigued me.

My mate's sister had "Still" and the first JD track I heard was the live version of "Ceremony". To a newcomer this isn't the greatest track to hear and I was bemused as to their appeal - but I felt I must buy "Unknown Pleasures" and "Closer" to see if their studio tracks bettered their live stuff (I hadn't heard the studio versions on "Still" at this point).

To get to the point - I brought my newly bought albums home - and on listening to "Disorder" I suddenly got what all the fuss was about. It isn't my favourite JD track but I credit it as the song that made me a devoted fan.



__________________
"I Still Can't Hear Meself"
AZ_Escapee

At a Later date
Registered:
Posts: 58
Reply with quote  #17 
I'm curious as to how many of us have a single favorite JD track or a top 10 list that never varies, versus how many of us have had different favorites or top ten tracks at different times or moods.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.