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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #126 
sorry to revive this topic, but would any curious/serious collectors care to compare their various edition etchings with the accompanying vinyl colour,ie. if differing vinyl status (transl. or plain black) bare the same ominous stampers (like s-38 & such) to see if this can help dating/eliminating firsts from seconds?
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Protovision

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Reply with quote  #127 

closer - translucent - a2/b2 - townhouse

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOY-DIVISION-Closer-FACTORY-LP-VERY-RARE-ORIGINAL-UK-TRANSLUCENT-PRESSING-KBD-/291387220075?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43d808206b

dmxi

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Reply with quote  #128 
durutti repress with similiar laquer:
[r]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251889612107?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

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johnny00c

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Reply with quote  #129 
The Rare Record Price guide shows the transluscent version as £80 and the black version as £50. Just for information.
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #130 
fuck me irish style!never seen one of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOY-DIVISION-LOVE-WILL-TEAR-US-APART-IRISH-PRESSING-TRANSLUCENT-/252060345170?hash=item3aaff7a352
[$_57]
[$_57]

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Atarubarreau

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Reply with quote  #131 
Some guy talked about it in a thread. That's not that impressive from what I see, I'm kinda disapointed (Plus it's 25 bucks each 5 minutes per side xDDD).
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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #132 
had a browse through discogs today and this seems to be a new addition to the UP info:
Textured outer sleeve; printed inner sleeve with rounded corners.
Vinyl is transluscent red when held against a strong light.

Note this version has runouts according printed labels and sleeve.
Side A is OUTSIDE (black label). Side B is INSIDE (white label).
But, to add some confusion, the metalworker, assigned "Outside" to B and "Inside" to A in the runouts. Nevertheless the runouts reflect the actual track order
Labels have a "Double Dip" with the elevated ring close to the runouts, characteristic for Tranco Limited pressings.

heres Tranco Limited:

Tranco Limited

Profil:
Vinyl pressing plant and Manufacturing Division of Pye Records (Sales) Ltd. Located in Mitcham, Surrey, UK.
Renamed to Precision Records & Tapes Limited in 1980 and closed in May 1981.

Characteristic for Tranco LPs is the elevated ring close to the runouts.
Generally, pressings can appear translucent (red) when held against strong light source. This is due to a different vinyl formulation, unique to the UK.

The solid center 7"s usually have a milling around the labels (similar to EMI pressings).

Note: While it's safe to assume that all Pye UK releases were pressed by Tranco, not all Pye masterings were necessarily pressed by Tranco. Pye Studios did a lot of contract mastering for other labels that were then pressed somewhere else, e.g. by CBS. The plant itself is not identifiable by characteristic matrix etchings or stamps.
Pye Records also had a 50% share in the Carlton Productions plant in Ireland until July 1972, where most of the records for the Irish market were pressed. Less
Mutterlabel:
Kontakt::
132 Western Road
Mitcham
Surrey CR4 3UT
England
[obsolete]

haven't seen this info before so i thought i'll put it up here for what it's worth & archiving.

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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #133 
it's adding more confusion as discogs now lists three translucent versions (just for the UK):
Unknown Pleasures(LP, Album, Tra)FactoryFACT 10UK1979 
 Unknown Pleasures(LP, Album, Tra)FactoryFACT 10UK1979 
 Unknown Pleasures(LP, Album, Tra)FactoryFACT 10UK1979
hope the links work...
      
       
      

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Protovision

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Reply with quote  #134 

hey, i had peace with this topic until saturday on the utrecht record fair [redface] i saw a factory sheet (at peter hook's auction exhibition) what shows the sales figures until 31/12/1984 of the early label releases, there is noted:
unknown pleasures 129.539
closer: 164.169
still: 123.844
still (special): 18.079
atmosphere 12": 96.266
transmission 7": 66.507
transmission 12": 54.646
love will tear us apart 7": 252.590
love will tear us apart 12": 139.162

hope it's interesting to the community and off course the figures include all pressing runs of each output & sorry, the NO sale figures are not as important and i have no nerve to write it down for the moment, would like to add my pix, sadly i didn't check it out to add it here [mad]

furthermore, i held the first time a translucent UP in hand (a dealer had one for 150 EUR in overall VG++ condition) and i must confess it looks good and equal to mine only i think the vinyl is slightly lighter, but i had no one to compare – it's only a feeling! many collectors means the translucent effect comes because the thinner vinyl, it make sense! on the run off i could not read all the notes because the scratches on the record and the bad light in the hall, but i mentioned 'this ...' and can't find (because the light etc.) any matrix endings with Sxx or Wxx...
...it makes me crazy not to fizzle out if they pressed really 5.000 on the pye/tranco (?) pressing plan and another 5.000 on the WEA plant in drayton (mentioned in discogs) or they made in 1980 a huge pressing action including closer and atmosphere 12" etc.!

on that fair i had the chance to ask hooky, but i would not stress him more as already and maybe he would laugh to that anorak stuff...
...he sells his entire memorability and plenty vinyl (SS, AIFL 7" & 12", factory sample) but no UP or closer, i would die for a look at his copy [wink]

 

PS: i tried dmxi link above to the UP's and further link to tranco led me read, maybe this are old news [idea]

Characteristic for Tranco LPs is the elevated ring close to the runouts.
Generally, pressings can appear translucent (red) when held against strong light source. This is due to a different vinyl formulation, unique to the UK.


...but mine solid black has even this elevated ring...

dmxi

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Reply with quote  #135 
I nearly made a massive beginners mistake...when asked to identify an original UP pressing,i flew over ebay offers and picked this sale :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOY-DIVISION-UNKNOWN-PLEASURES-1979-FIRST-PRESSING-FANTASTIC-CONDITION/143185978306?_mwBanner=1&ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11051.m43.l1123/7?euid=5ff787729d1944d8a49d83e4d6c754b6&bu=43817289312&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F143185978306&sojTags=bu=bu&srcrot=e11051.m43.l1123&rvr_id=0&rvr_ts=baebf90b1690a99085a0e019fffa60d4&ul_noapp=true&pageci=cc283cae-f6ac-4ff3-a49a-88dc02453d46&redirect=mobile

Flying over the matrix details i missed the lynntone suffix and only saw "a porky prime cut"+ a & b,with the seller stating "one of the first 10,000".most here surely know its a 1981 pressing:
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/5782758

Thank god no dammage was done and i now have to get spectacles as per wish of my wife([wink]no shit)!
The seller was contacted and has taken the sale down.he seemed to be genuine and as i learnt the hardway,everyone can be mistaken.....but for me ,it was a kick in the head.

Special thanks to eagle eye RJ10!!!!a future expert in the making...he'll be giving us advice soon[wink]👍

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RiotNrrrd

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Reply with quote  #136 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxi
I nearly made a massive beginners mistake... when asked to identify an original UP pressing, i flew over eBay offers and picked this sale :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOY-DIVISION-UNKNOWN-PLEASURES-1979-FIRST-PRESSING-FANTASTIC-CONDITION/143185978306?_mwBanner=1&ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11051.m43.l1123/7?euid=5ff787729d1944d8a49d83e4d6c754b6&bu=43817289312

Flying over the matrix details i missed the Lyntone suffix and only saw "A Porky Prime Cut" + a & b, with the seller stating "one of the first 10,000". most here surely know it's a 1981 pressing:

https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/5782758


I would have thought the squared-off inner sleeve would have been the tip-off ...

dmxi

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Reply with quote  #137 
First pressings came in both,if you go to the start of this thread you'll find the big debate if black or translucent vinyl,squared or rounded ois....
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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #138 
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/master/4805
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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #139 
As a sidenote,i forgot that this mixture was used later also: [s-l500] 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-ORDER-Temptation-RARE-TRANSLUCENT-VINYL-PRESS-UK-7-FAC63-Joy-Division/392278905828?hash=item5b55a513e4:g:nLoAAOSwBUtct29Z

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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #140 
Quick question regarding the first uk up cd release,i got 2 issues and both have rough edges and partially look...well,rough in parts.nothing serious,top and bottom are flawless,so is the rest...ie cover and insert.only missing cellophane wrapping is missing,otherwise mint(others classify as nm).my 2 'closer'
CDs dont have that issue,so...do your editions have a similiar rough edge,is the question?
Driving me nuts,and replies will determine if i will bother getting another copy?
Cheers upfront for any help....
Pi.S.:excuse my pedantic crap,hope an understanding collector gets me drift,
-geek out-

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NeathBlue

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Reply with quote  #141 
Great thread and I’m glad I found this...
I didn’t realise there was a red translucent pressing of Closer until a month or so ago, so I was pleased when I put mine in front of a light, it turned red.
I bought it in a record shop in Cardiff called Spillers the week it was released, a few of us had preordered it.
So I don’t know if it’s a very first pressing but it’s certainly the one that reached South Wales on release.
It’s got the textured sleeve, rounded cornered inner and matrix A1 and B1
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #142 
Hi & welcome on board,mate....actually your post confirms what others, whom had the pleasure of being buyers at the time of official release,have confirmed.the fact that the vinyl-mix of tranco turned transl.-red under luminous scrutiny was first discovered around early 2000's and has been hotly debated ever since.your confirmation of purchase date is a vital piece of the puzzle!!
Cheers mate & best wishes......................-dmxi-

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NeathBlue

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Reply with quote  #143 
Thanks dmxi...
These translucent pressings of records are odd, though I’m assuming they are intentional and not just a batch that had a weak mix in the vinyls opaqueness when pressed??
I bought the 2nd Specials album, More Specials, when it came out on release and it included the free single... a friend bought it as well with me that day.
About a year ago he’d read that some copies of the single were translucent red, and sure enough his is... but when I checked mine, mine wasn’t despite it having the same matrix numbers and being bought in the same shop at the same time.
Has anyone previously confirmed that translucent pressings are intentional or not?
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #144 
It was a special vinyl mix of the tranco pressing plant,they usually have an elovated ring on the edge of the label.
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Protovision

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Reply with quote  #145 

...i fear this topic will go on forever! i must say i didn't read all the back replies (incl. my own) again, but because so many 'week of release' buyers are mentioned it's tr. red and some have solid black is my question now, did tranco limited pressed all the fist 10.000 copies or did it two companies? further it think the initial run was more than 10k and how much later started the second run of the 10k wiki mentioned? in those days i can not believe they pressed exactly 10k, and maybe they try to avoid taxes...

...at first i thought the red wax was a sort of a mistake, thinner vinyl or mixed vinyl granular * but it appears on so many items, even US records exist tr. red! maybe it's a pressing 'technique' to save material, whatever! i think only a worker at the plant or an inside person from factory (survivor) or the artists can help meanwhile! [frown]


*consider by 10k copies you have between 10-20 pressing matrices maybe every have there own extra etching (the Sxx numbers) take a look at:
https://www.discogs.com/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/11400
or maybe some machine runs out of the vinyl granules or something else happened to the machine to press a slightly different copy, who knows...

...even the inner sleeves exists in 2 variations 'square' and 'round' totally mixed up with the color variation! and i even have that 'elovated ring' on my solid black one [rolleyes]

dmxi

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Reply with quote  #146 
https://www.discogs.com/de/label/416448-Tranco-Limited
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Reply with quote  #147 


Well, looked through that list out of curiosity more than anything, but then right at the end there’s the Specials 45 of Gangsters with a 4 prong centre... and I’ve got that and just checked and it is indeed translucent red lol
Bought that years ago in a second hand record shop and only bought it because I’d never seen a two-tone record with a 4 prong centre before.
Protovision

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Reply with quote  #148 

...Ok, then all tranco items are tr. red but the question is, how many from the first 10k (or much more) batch are from this plant, when so many 'first week buyers' have a solid black one... [confused]


sry, but i don't know if i or anybody had mentioned previous!

https://www.factoryrecords.org/factory-records/fact-25-joy-division-closer.php

they explain the first pressing has the 'suede' cover and in the dead wax as always the number and old blue? but + the etching AA (please look at the site, ist too much fuzzle) and second pressing the extra etching BC but discogs mentioned the BC is also included in the tr. red variations section [frown]
my copy has all the first run signs and is solid black and on side A the extra etchings AN and on side B: AW

...i didn't want to confuse the topic more, but i think this extra etchings must be more than this 2 variations, because they are ultra fine and small, i must look out very hard to find it and in my opinion it's the same puzzle as the Sxx etching on UP

 the closer sales are huge and even the fist pressing must sold so many and like UP two different plants with many stamper plates and extra etchings  [idea]

dmxi

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Reply with quote  #149 
FACT 25 comes in two vinyl editions: Black and dark translucent red. It can only be differentiated when holding against a strong light source. Apparently, this is due to Martin Hannett, who ordered a second master cut after he found out that 5000 records were pressed without the initial master having been approved.

There also are two sleeve variations: A plain carton cover with glossy inner sleeve and having straight corners. Or a thick rough cardboard cover with rough inner sleeve and having rounded corners. However, the two vinyl editions can come in either cover.

145'091 copies were pressed in total until 17 July 1981.

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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #150 
On a personal note,after years of research and breaking my b*lls i consider my UP issue with a1/b1 matrices + usual text but without s-xxx additions as a first.....until evidence to the contrary comes to light.thats the only way i can have peace of mind [wink]
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