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NeathBlue

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Reply with quote  #151 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxi
On a personal note,after years of research and breaking my b*lls i consider my UP issue with a1/b1 matrices + usual text but without s-xxx additions as a first.....until evidence to the contrary comes to light.thats the only way i can have peace of mind [wink]


If you’ve an a1/b1 matrix, it’s got to be a first pressing imo...
I bought the Stone Roses debut album literally the day of release, again in Spillers in Cardiff... It’s the a2/b2 matrix, for whatever reason there’s no a1/b1 pressing of this album, but it didn’t have the embossed cover so a lot of people wouldn’t regard it as a first pressing, even though it clearly is.
The identification of first pressings is never straight forward lol
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #152 
Its the same with NO's -movement-,the first release was an a2/b2 too:
https://www.discogs.com/de/New-Order-Movement/release/28847

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #153 
On a side note,here is the irish plant that produced(?) or prepared for the irish market.they also had a
translucent mix,it seems:
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/5861937


https://www.discogs.com/de/label/265380-Carlton-Productions

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
Protovision

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Reply with quote  #154 

...i don't know why i started again to post at this topic [rolleyes]

for sure dmxi has the one and only true first minute pressing, but for all others, i think UP must be pressed simultaneously on more than one pressing plant or machines (without the tr. red effect), so many 'first week' buyers can't be wrong and even the common website didn't mentioned what comes first and it even this sites show their weaknesses...

...the fact that some (or all) tr. red pressing have no extra etchings is no sign to be the earlier version for me! maybe the tranco pressing plant worker has no 'style' to scratch extra notes in the stampers (most records have after many runs no extra etchings) but it must exist more stamper plates, because every 500-1000 a new 'son' must be used and on one discogs entry a tr. red with etchings like AQ and AD are mentioned.

...we know the closer discogs entry about mr. hannet but it was not mentioned (or i did not understand it) what the 'color' had the 5000 copies!


it's long ago and i read some older post from us, i forgot how inflated it was! my hope was to find a few other guys here, but i see dmxi is the head of the class meanwhile [cool] so i wait another few years!


PS: IS THIS NECESSARY, what helps a pressing for the irish market or all the other post from other tr. red items???

dmxi

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Reply with quote  #155 
Like i said,after research and all contributions made by more knowledgable members here,i assumed that conclusion to rid myself of the head-aches it was creating.i have a hunch,that soon new revelations will hit the board that will clear or confuse this topic....then i will be "head of ass",for sure.i am looking forward to that day!
Thats why i am desperatly seeking for a solid/mintish black version,just to have a back-up which i am surprised not to already have.i mistakenly got the 'Rc' one.even a german metronome from '80 would do me but i lost faith in that one due to that perfect looking inoffial version.
Btw,tapes and cds have gripped my attention lately as factory really did a good job on those.love how they apllied the artwork,stunning and really attention worthy.
Sadly posters,flyers even stickers are extemely hard to get if you dont sit at the end of the rainbow on a pot o' gold.
But shouldn't moan,got a few og fotos,exhb.flyers and rare books and always on the look for an ignorant seller.i wish everyone luck whom does the same!

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #156 
Did you check discogs?
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Closer/master/4734

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #157 
On a side note,just found out that there are even green translucent versions:
[jpeg] 
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Closer/release/13437822

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
Erik

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Reply with quote  #158 
One of my translucent red US Closer Factus 6 LPs looks green under some light bulbs, so maybe it's the same with this UK pressing too, the colour depending on what light bulb you use? Or can anyone confirm this UK pressing only looks green under any light source? 


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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #159 
It has the same etchings as my red transl. with no extra markings and it is not clear which plant pressed it....like tranco?
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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
Nomore

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Reply with quote  #160 
D.mn found it ... not the one i was hoping for ;( I missed the ... dots on the label and the dubble dip... 

https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/836982455

Thanks for your time anyway.
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #161 
Pleasure mate,happy we could help.
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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #162 
Going by the pictures ,this seller has a red transl. issue going "cheap"...so if anyone is interested but check with seller to make sure:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures-1980-Orig-UK-Black-Vinyl-LP-1st-Press-GD-VG/184179093652?hash=item2ae1edf094:g:0wwAAOSwvoZeTrkz
[s-l1600] 
[s-l1600] 

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
Nomore

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Reply with quote  #163 
It’s all Black! [wink] Nice Guy btw.
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #164 
Ah ok,i didn't contact the guy so in case it being a tranco pressing and him changing the price which would've made the deal obsolete.a pity but all the info seemed like a tranco pressing.
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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
Nomore

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Reply with quote  #165 
So talking abt UP. Let’s say I like to spend some one time money for this album. What version should I get?
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #166 
Most of us view this version as the most desirable:
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/9528705
Next is this one:
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/9538176
And then these two,the opaque black pressings which are first issues too:
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/11400
& this one which is the plainest of the four but still as beautiful as the above:
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/9538176

The following are as collectible and also have great sound besides the stunning artwork;
The first uk cd,also one of the best cd presings:

https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/1657960

And these tapes are real little treasures,i love these esp.,was really hard to get without spending a fortune:
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/707231
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/807993

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #167 
Soundwise and really beautiful made (the text.cover is made more stabil,glossy texture and superior sound,some say) is the german issue on the metronome label:
https://www.discogs.com/de/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/683817

Read the reviews at the bottom of the page!this is all my personal opinion if you want find more personal experiences about this lp and differing issues check out the steve hoffman blog where you'll find a plethora of info shared by audiophile,digital & tape fans.
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/joy-division.623349/
This is the starting page for joy division,in the top right corner is the searchbar where you enter the topic you desire like,say unknown pleasures best vinyl etc.....
Hope it helps....- dmxi -

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
Nomore

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Reply with quote  #168 
Wow thank you very much, very helpful :)
sebfact

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Reply with quote  #169 
Something to set this straight....

Unknown Pleasures:
While the translucent UK copies (pressed by Tranco) are driving collectors crazy, they aren't the first pressings.
The initial run of 10'000 copies was pressed by the WEA plant in West Drayton, and the vinyl is pitch black!
The Tranco pressings probably came next (end of 1979 and/ or early 1980) but there also was another, unknown, plant involved in 1980 to press some 50'000 copies.
Later copies were pressed by Lyntone (1981) and even later by Polygram (1985 onwards).
Tranco used a vinyl formulation ending up in translucent vinyl but also opaque pressings exist. And Factory certainly didn't have anything to do with the vinyl colour, nor even ordered it.

The 1980 US pressings were all done by Record Technology Inc. and all are translucent. Here again this is due to the vinyl formulations used. Again, nothing to do with the label.
I would never believe anyone telling me that a specific translucency colour came first unless he has pressed the records himself. Much ado about nothing to stir the hype and keep prices high for Joy Division records. AFAIK, there aren't any opaque RTI pressings existing but if, that would be the real rare piece.

Closer:
Here, indeed, the Tranco pressings came first but translucent and opaque pressings are known as first pressings (50'000 pressed - so where is your rarity?). From my personal experience, I'd say that the red translucent copies in the rough inner and outer covers with rounded corners came first.
However, in 1981, CBS took over the pressing (assumed 150'000). These copies are very different cover-wise, being plain printed w/o roughness but carry the same matrix A1 / B-1.
Here, too, Lyntone also pressed a share (assumed 50'000) in 1981.
The A2 / B2 TOWNHOUSE matrix came 1983 and these were pressed by MVS and Carlton Productions (watch out for their typical brown translucency).
The A3 / B3 matrix came 1985 or later (pressed by PolyGram).
PatTeasdale

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Reply with quote  #170 
Good info Sebfact

So basically dont be fooled to pay crazy money for a "red translucent first issue of UP" ... as it wasnt the first issue, nor was it intentionally translucent red when it was later pressed


Protovision

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Reply with quote  #171 

THX sebfact to share your opinion with us...

...when you can help us with the problem to fumble out the 10k first black run from 1979 and the 50k run (unknown plant) from 1980 [biggrin] i have one solid black copy (i think, don't find a strong enough light until yet) with a double dip elevated ring (in discogs mentioned characteristic for tranco) only on the outside (correct label B-side) and flat inside A label. also extra etchings in the dead wax on side A S2 and side B W2. meanwhile i think because so many copies with extra etchings exist, this are the 50k pressing from 1980...[frown] but the first 10k must have also a sign of stamper code etc. IMO!

my closer with elevated ring label the rough cover and inner sleeve (round corners) has also extra etchings on side A AN and side B AW...


thx in advance

 

PS: i forgot to look at the discogs entry for the 'WEA plant West Drayton' plantuntil yet – it's explicit mentioned the extra etchings like Wx and Sx etc. [idea]

fishboybilly

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Reply with quote  #172 
hi, also good reviews on sound quality of this one
https://www.discogs.com/Joy-Division-Unknown-Pleasures/release/4233748
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #173 
Not contesting your conclusion,but the red transl. is still the rarest version of uk pressings on the market and still is a novelty going by cover textured,round corner inner and then the blood red transl. vinyl which altogether has a certain allure....and collectors love that.anyway,its sound is also stellar.
Concerning rarity,i deduce that from market experience which i check daily and they hardly come up,lets say ebay....you'll find a copy 5-10 times a year maybe and i have been doing this for 11 years now.
I check german,uk and us markets and now and then eu markets.
But thanks for the info,sebfact....was gonna get a black copy anyway for completion but am a little torn between that or getting a german metronome?hard to be a collector sometimes...[wink]

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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
RiotNrrrd

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Reply with quote  #174 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxi
Not contesting your conclusion, but the red translucent vinyl is still the rarest version of the UK pressings on the market and still is a novelty going by cover textured, round cornered inner sleeve and then the blood red translucent vinyl which altogether has a certain allure... and collectors love that.


The issue is not the rarity or novelty, it's the fact that every damn sale listing of these things claims "First press!" which is bollocks.  Punters are getting fleeced by these nonsense claims.  (The whole "first press" fetish is bizarre to begin with, but that's another topic.)

dmxi

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Reply with quote  #175 
I didn't say that is the issue,i posted that for my own sanity.....and maybe that explains the prices,if you can follow my train of thought.there are many second pressings out there that fetch higher prices due to minute or big differences to their predecessor first pressings.
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.....wish I could remember exactly when and how I obtained it, but that's lost in the mists of time it seems. But I do remember I was happy to get it back then.....
-erik-
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