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herrlast

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Reply with quote  #1 
I am a keen autograph collector and have a decent collection in the film and music area. One autograph I'd still very much like to own is Ian Curtis'. I may have had one in my hands (literally) a few years back when a record/memorabilia seller I know in Norwich got one in (see pic below - if it works). It was a Transmission single signed on the back, apparently at the West Runton gig in November 1979. The dealer wanted to test it out on ebay and I didn't want to risk making an offer there and then as I had no clue what Ian's signature looked like. I was also a bit suspicious of it being on a record sleeve and very well placed at that. I had absolutely no doubts about the dealer's integrity. In the end I couldn't find enough examples on the internet to get happy with it (three max and all very different to one another) and it sailed off to Italy for £336. It is still shown on Popsike (sold on ebay UK on 16 December 2007) but I can find no discussion of it on this forum. Nearly 5 years on there are around three new signature examples on the internet but none are what I would call authenticated. I have a couple of questions: 1) Could anyone post some examples of Ian's signature that they obtained in person or from very reliable sources. 2) Does anyone know whether JD used to sell their records at their gigs. I cannot really imagine it but I also cannot imagine many people taking their records to a gig on the off-chance that they might be able to get them autographed - particularly for a band that is yet to make it big.

winteracademy

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Reply with quote  #2 
Theres no pic
Marko

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Reply with quote  #3 
Can't find it on Popsike do you have the URL?



herrlast

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Reply with quote  #4 
Sorry about that. I'm new to this site and couldn't get the picture to attach. Here is the link - in case it doesn't work I got it through Googling "Ian Curtis autograph" and selecting "pictures": http://www.popsike.com/IAN-CURTIS-JOY-DIVISION-AUTHENTIC-AUTOGRAPH-SIGNATURE/120194266160.html
winteracademy

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Reply with quote  #5 
Here are the 4 real autographs from an ebay auction many years ago, you only have to lookk at the other 3 to know Ian's is real ....I'm suspicious of the one you posted
Wallflower

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Reply with quote  #6 
I'm kinda thinking Ian's epilepsy would've affected his handwriting...
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Phill

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by herrlast
Sorry about that. I'm new to this site and couldn't get the picture to attach. Here is the link - in case it doesn't work I got it through Googling "Ian Curtis autograph" and selecting "pictures": http://www.popsike.com/IAN-CURTIS-JOY-DIVISION-AUTHENTIC-AUTOGRAPH-SIGNATURE/120194266160.html


If it helps, PM me an email address and I'll happily send you scans of the 2
Ian signatures that I have in my collection (acquired by myself and not for sale).

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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #8 
@phill
i'ld love to see them too.....& the story of their acquisition.

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Phill

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Reply with quote  #9 

dmxi: likewise, PM me an address and I'm happy to send you scans. I won't
post them here, as some years ago the guys who run this fantastic site
rightfully pointed out that more JD signatures on the net, simply encourages
more forgeries on the net.
It seems to me, that over the short period of time that Ian would have been
asked to sign material, his writing style (when not scribing in capitals) was
incredibly inconsistent, so finding a 100% reliable sample would rely more
on its source than its appearance. Don't buy autographs: it's as simple as
that. As I've written here before somewhere, the 2 signatures still in my
posession were obtained backstage at Malvern Winter Gardens, 5th April
'80. Only had a brief few words with Ian that I've largely forgotten the content
of, but he was friendly and polite. He was sat down, elbows on knees and
looked knackered, but when approached, seemed to pick-up.


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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #10 
@phill
cheers mate....& a very nice anecdote (you lucky bugger!).

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desertlizard

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Reply with quote  #11 
Phil thanks for that story, any chance for me to see your scans too?
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venus44

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Reply with quote  #12 
I too have Ian,s autograph I obtained it at the  Derby Ajanta. Ian was polite and signed the back of a fanzine I had some members of the support band xl5 also signed it. The one from popsike is dubious I know a collector of factory stuff and he told me it was a fake so....caveat emptor
Erik

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Reply with quote  #13 
On the subject of IC autographs, I found this on ebay   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-One-Off-Joy-Division-Love-Will-Tear-us-Apart-Signed-by-Ian-Curtis-W-COA-/280998140339?pt=UK_Music_Music_Memorabilia_LE&hash=item416ccb59b3 
From the description; "I am yet to find anywhere another example of this single signed". Could have something to do with it not having been released until 27 June '80 perhaps?


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Reply with quote  #14 
The seller also sold this autographed piece of paper in a frame, funny how the autograph (allegedly from 1979) is very similar to the one supposedly done on LWTUA in May 80. Almost identical in fact, something Ian failed to manage on most of the autographs I've seen of his.

That's not even considering the obvious flaw in this. The lesson is, it's barely worth buying autographs on eBay, ever! A large percentage will be fake, and you'll never know for sure either way. However, you will be poorer.
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #15 
this is the reply from the seller with the signed lwtua single:
Hallo ruja12374,

Thats completely incorrect! If you knew, it was actually released twice, 1st time without charting and then second reissue after his death which then became their only chart success.

http://www.allmusic.com/song/love-will-tear-us-apart-mt0003547238
http://www.nme.com/nme-video/joy-division-love-will-tear-us-apart---classic-song/1414932997001
http://ascentofmanchester.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/love-will-tear-us-apart-1976-1980.html
http://thegospelaccordingtorichardcroft.wordpress.com/2010/05/16/152-joy-division-love-will-tear-us-apart-1980/
http://thesoundofmycrowd.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/friday-april-13th-2012-friday-13th.html
http://wn.com/in_the_nursery_love_will_tear_us_apart_joy_division_cover
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Joy-Division-Biography/BA520A92E52043724825695A002C0FFC
 

anyone?using useless links that don't confirm his fantasy signed copy is not the best way
to scam or he really believes he's right.

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lee

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Reply with quote  #16 
The article that claimed an April release date is incorrect. Whoever wrote that article has taken the release date from the label - the label has 18/4/80 printed on it.

Someone may well correct me if I'm wrong (although in this case I think I'm not) - but the dates on the record labels were projected release dates - and I believe that the event of the release date on the label actually matching up to the date the record WAS released coincidentally matches the amount of times Joy Division songs were covered by The Doors.

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Erik

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Reply with quote  #17 
Very true  
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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #18 
my message to rudy:
here's a comprehensive site with all facts & knowledge regarding JD:
http://www.joydiv.org/lwtua.htm
it's a known fact that lwtua was designed & released after ians demise,i'm just pointing out that it's impossible & you were betrayed by your supplier.none of your links confirmed your information supplied with the e-bay auction.hope you're not too crushed but with a little luck you'll find a sucker....................best wishes & regards................d.

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winteracademy

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Reply with quote  #19 
I guess he found a sucker, there was one bidder
truth

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Reply with quote  #20 
It doesn't look like anyone actually bid, same goes for his other autographs (which are bound to be fake too if this is anything to go by), Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin, Eddie Cochran, Billie Holliday, Jeff Buckley, all obvious big money targets for forgers, with strangely no cheaper and less likely to be forged ones up for sale. How weird.

Buying autographs on eBay is a mugs game.
winteracademy

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Reply with quote  #21 
Stats say 80% of them on ebay are fake

lee

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Reply with quote  #22 
dmxi - just one thing - the record was released after Ian's demise -but it was designed beforehand - there's Debbie's quote in TFAD where he was enthusiastically telling her about the metal sheeting on the cover looking like a tombstone - "at a time where usually he couldn't be bothered to talk to me"

Overall - the guy is still chancing it - but thought I'd clear that up -sorry to be such a pedant an'all that

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dmxi

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Reply with quote  #23 
"yer right, mate!" what i was trying to say was the finished product (single in sleeve) & not just the layout of the sleeve.......used the wrong word as i brainfarted a quick reply,my bad!
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Erik

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Reply with quote  #24 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-IAN-CURTIS-JOY-DIVISION-SIGNED-RECORD-SLEEVE-KOMAKINO-FULL-REPUTABLE-COA-/160921371273?pt=UK_Collectables_Memorabila_RL&hash=item2577a94289

The Komakino flexi is obviously a bad choice, although the seller states that he/she can't confirm this is the original sleeve to the record...

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winteracademy

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Reply with quote  #25 
I questioned the seller on the fact that the flexi was released a month after Ian's death and this was the response,

Like i said I don't think this is the original disc for the sleeve, I said that in the listing. Ignore the record its the sleeve that is the real value
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