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johnny23

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Reply with quote  #1 
The Title says it all.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JOY-DIVISION-IAN-CURTIS-GRAVESTONE-RUBBING-VERY-RARE-/192206650407?hash=item2cc068bc27:

£600.00p !!

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JGreham

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Reply with quote  #2 
I don't know how to react to something like this. Imo, this is immoral. Thank god this is not an actual gravestone.
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PatTeasdale

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Reply with quote  #3 
Its certainly rather odd  ... and intrusive ... and is probably sad side effect of the scale of Joy Division and Ian these days ... compared to prior mid May 1980
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #4 
Was the person who did the rubbing most likely an original Joy Division fan, probably amazed, but also at the same humbled, who felt personally fortunate to happen to be at the right time and right place to be able to not only be near to, but to actually acquire something related to Ian Curtis, even after his passing over ?

PatTeasdale

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Reply with quote  #5 
And therein lies the problem
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #6 
Touching from a distance... ?

PhilC

I Remember Nothing
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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatTeasdale
Its certainly rather odd  ... and intrusive ... and is probably sad side effect of the scale of Joy Division and Ian these days ... compared to prior mid May 1980


Gravestone rubbings were fairly common albeit they're usually of memorials that are much more interesting than this. I'm not sure that it could really be called immoral or intrusive any more than taking a photo of the memorial...

...but it's a very hopeful (i.e. completely unrealistic) asking price!
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #8 
Image may contain: text

                            Is it immoral to want something , however distant, to connect to Ian ? 

                                    Touching from a distance ... getting further every time...

JGreham

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Reply with quote  #9 
I mean, something of possessions is okay, but not from the monument, that is.
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TJ_Davidson

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Reply with quote  #10 
Wow, the hunt for cash over Ian's remains has become pretty perverse. I understand that a fool is born every minute, but I'd like to tell the seller to take his crayon and stick it up his rabbit hole. People who are trying to profit from other peoples' misery are what's wrong with this world.
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #11 
TJ Davidson.

You are terribly and negatively judgemental.

Do you think the person that originally did that was not a fan and went to the gravestone to make a memorial for himself from the original just to make money ?

Not a fan at all, just a stranger, someone who did something only for some hopeful future materialistic gain ? Maybe they actually are a person who loved, and Still loves Ian and Joy Division, and wanted to touch from a distance. Maybe, the person needs money now, as they have fallen on tough or  even desperately terrible times, and would much rather keep it, but maybe it will pay their rent, if they lost their job.

Would you criticise someone for selling their copy of  Sordide Sentimantal, and suggest that the person didn't love Joy Division enough to either be at the right place and time early on to buy it for a fair price, or a really devout fan that shelled out huge money more recently ?  For most of us here on Joy Division Central, it is our most treasured pride and Joy piece - a rare and beautiful, powerful total piece of art - musical and artistic. But if we needed money, or fell on hard times, would we be sinning for selling our personal copy ?  I would not want to, and it would be hard to, but if someone did, who was a fan, and if they could really use the money, it is their own personal business,  which they would not want to hear or need outside condemnation for. 

I don't know any of the the facts, but I will give the person the benefit of the doubt. At least " live and let live ".
TJ_Davidson

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Reply with quote  #12 
Indeed, negatively judgemental. The reason being this particular auction has neither to do with music, nor the love for music. To compare it with someone selling Sordid is apples and oranges. While some may find it tragic if someone is compelled by circumstances to sell a revered record, the other case seems more like commercializing a tragedy. It's not as wicked as actually stealing the memorial stone, but to some extent it steals its integrity, especially when money is asked for something that would have taken a minute to produce. Anyone who can't see an issue with this probably has different standards. But I think it's fundamentally wrong to "take money home" from the cemetery.
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #13 
TJ Davidson.

     Have you ever been accused, judged, and then condemned for something which you did, that on the surface, looked questionable, but you had your reasons which others could not know.

     Maybe something which had you Torn Apart, and whichever choice you made would be criticised by one party or another ?

    Something you may have been uncomfortable doing, but it was, as philosophers like to put it, " the lesser of two evils " ? ... and then, after you beat up yourself for doing the lesser, and maybe having some personal remorse, you get condemned by someone else ? Choosing one high moral ground verses another conflicting one ?

    Maybe it was a very complicated and conflicting matter, that involved elements beyond your Control, and your decision, your choice of Control, was also a deeply personal one - something you would be unable or unwilling to share with a stranger, let alone a loved one ?

    Torn Apart - it happens. It happens to those of us who are selfish, and it happens to best of us, who, again as others who have referred to our human mortal coil as coined the phrase " not humans having spiritual experiences, but spirits having human experiences ".

     Ian was Torn Apart. Ian had so many conflicts in his last days - the epilepsy that embarrassed him, that may have held him and the band back from live performances, his personal and family life, the daunting challenge and perhaps fear of becoming famous and the concern to keep one's morals and ego intact... 

     Ian had more than cruel words thrown at him.

     Ian was ridiculed. Ian was bullied. Ian cried out in every way. In strength. In human weakness. He felt the pain from outside. He felt the pain inside.                                                                                                                                                                                           n, 

Mother I tried please believe me,
I'm doing the best that I can.
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through,
I'm ashamed of the person I am.

Isolation, isolation, isolation.
dmxi

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Reply with quote  #14 
@jdisachuffinnutcase
Preparation for some flightcase rubbings, eh?

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jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #15 

TJ Davidson.

     Have you ever been accused, judged, and then condemned for something which you did, that on the surface, looked questionable, but you had your reasons which others could not know.

     Maybe something which had you Torn Apart, and whichever choice you made would be criticised by one party or another ?

    Something you may have been uncomfortable doing, but it was, as philosophers like to put it, " the lesser of two evils " ? ... and then, after you beat up yourself for doing the lesser, and maybe having some personal remorse, you get condemned by someone else ? Choosing one high moral ground verses another conflicting one ?

    Maybe it was a very complicated and conflicting matter, that involved elements beyond your Control, and your decision, your choice of Control, was also a deeply personal one - something you would be unable or unwilling to share with a stranger, let alone a loved one ?

     Torn Apart - it happens. It happens to those of us who are selfish, and it happens to best of us, who, again as others who have referred to our human mortal coil as coined the phrase " not humans having spiritual experiences, but spirits having human experiences ".

     Ian was Torn Apart. Ian had so many conflicts in his last days - the epilepsy that embarrassed him, that may have held him and the band back from live performances, his personal and family life, the daunting challenge and perhaps fear of becoming famous and the concern to keep one's morals and ego intact... 

     Ian had more than cruel words thrown at him.

     Ian was ridiculed. Ian was bullied. Ian cried out in every way. In strength. In human weakness. He felt the pain from outside. He felt the pain inside.

    And isn't it pitiful that someone who's words SHOULD have been heard - a singer - publicly - live with great loudness, or singing, seemingly personally for each listener, for you and you, and me, with such powerful and classic lyrics...  If this person, in this situation, is not heard, who CAN be ! Maybe this was Ian's reason for leaving - he did everything he could to be heard, but he wasn't !!! 

    This is beyond tragic.

 Surrendered to self preservation,
From others who care for themselves.
A blindness that touches perfection,
But hurts just like anything else.                                                                                                                                                                                           

Mother I tried please believe me,
I'm doing the best that I can.
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through,
I'm ashamed of the person I am.

Isolation, isolation, isolation.

jdivision1970

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Gutz
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Reply with quote  #16 
JDS
Cant make up my mind on this one. Am torn apart
between Grade A Roaster or just morality mentalist.
Any chance of a picture of a rubbing of the infamous flight case?

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jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #17 
jdivision1970 ... 

Cant make up my mind on this one. Am torn apart
between Grade A Roaster or just morality mentalist.
Any chance of a picture of a rubbing of the infamous flight case?

Thank you for mocking Ian's tombstone and Joy Division's equipment. I am sure everyone is thankful for your intelligent and spiritual comments.
SwiftNick

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Thank you for mocking Ian's tombstone and Joy Division's equipment. I am sure everyone is thankful for your intelligent and spiritual comments.


He's mocking people - like yourself - who take Ian, a bloke who had some problems and who wrote some excellent lyrics, and turn him into some kind of untouchable demi-god. You need to have a think about that. And heaven forfend that we should allow the mocking of Joy Division's equipment. Give your head a wobble lad.
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #19 
SwiftNick  If you think I am utterly stupid, which I'm sure the majority of the busy bee posters on JDC think I am, or just plain hate me, you may be wrong. I may have a semblance of intelligence. Perhaps I was hoping the poster would simply admit their comments were silly, not serious, and mocking - thereby making useless comments - and wasting everyone's time, except their own fanciful self aggrandisement. Your comments are also mocking me, and you now join the rest of your JDC friends who put me down.
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #20 
My apologies SwiftNick. I see we have met before ...   with your other judgemental and critical ( I would not dare say jealous ) comments...

   
PatTeasdale

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Reply with quote  #21 
Maybe stop playing the "O, Woe is me" card all the time jdspencer ...  SwiftNick hits the nail on the head in his post above.


dmxi

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Reply with quote  #22 
waste of time pat,i tried....which i regret now,seems to be in need of special attention.
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SwiftNick

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Perhaps I was hoping the poster would simply admit their comments were silly, not serious, and mocking - thereby making useless comments - and wasting everyone's time, except their own fanciful self aggrandisement.


Back at ya!
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #24 
http://lwtua.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1294982114&postcount=9&forum=21830 This is a quote you will find back here from Joy Division Central's own site. 
Quote:
from Joy Division Central.

 ( Quote from site )  http://lwtua.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1294982114&postcount=9&forum=21830   a quote which you will find back here on Joy Division Central's own site.  ( Quote from site )
jdispencer

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Reply with quote  #25 

Have you ever been accused, judged, and then condemned for something which you did, that on the surface, looked questionable, but you had your reasons which others could not know.

     Maybe something which had you Torn Apart, and whichever choice you made would be criticised by one party or another ?

    Something you may have been uncomfortable doing, but it was, as philosophers like to put it, " the lesser of two evils " ? ... and then, after you beat up yourself for doing the lesser, and maybe having some personal remorse, you get condemned by someone else ? Choosing one high moral ground verses another conflicting one ?

    Maybe it was a very complicated and conflicting matter, that involved elements beyond your Control, and your decision, your choice of Control, was also a deeply personal one - something you would be unable or unwilling to share with a stranger, let alone a loved one ?

     Torn Apart - it happens. It happens to those of us who are selfish, and it happens to best of us, who, again as others who have referred to our human mortal coil as coined the phrase " not humans having spiritual experiences, but spirits having human experiences ".

     Ian was Torn Apart. Ian had so many conflicts in his last days - the epilepsy that embarrassed him, that may have held him and the band back from live performances, his personal and family life, the daunting challenge and perhaps fear of becoming famous and the concern to keep one's morals and ego intact... 

     Ian had more than cruel words thrown at him.

     Ian was ridiculed. Ian was bullied. Ian cried out in every way. In strength. In human weakness. He felt the pain from outside. He felt the pain inside.

    And isn't it pitiful that someone who's words SHOULD have been heard - a singer - publicly - live with great loudness, or singing, seemingly personally for each listener, for you and you, and me, with such powerful and classic lyrics...  If this person, in this situation, is not heard, who CAN be ! Maybe this was Ian's reason for leaving - he did everything he could to be heard, but he wasn't !!! 

    This is beyond tragic.

 Surrendered to self preservation,
From others who care for themselves.
A blindness that touches perfection,
But hurts just like anything else.                                                                                                                                                                                           

Mother I tried please believe me,
I'm doing the best that I can.
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through,
I'm ashamed of the person I am.

Isolation, isolation, isolation.


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