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tat84

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Reply with quote  #1 
just seen the documentary it was really good and a good way to learn more about the band and where they were coming from. the scenes of what Manchester looked like were amazing i can't believe that is what those people had to wake up and see everyday its horrible.

but to my question...
in the doc Bernard Sumner says he came up with the name joy division from this book he was given, he said when he told people about it they were awh struck saying "thats a good band name"
question is ...i thought that Ian Curtis had been the one to come up with it ?
or am i wrong

stepoutside

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Reply with quote  #2 

I thought that too.  Haven't seen the doc though.

stepoutside

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So Barney also chose the excerpt from House of Dolls that they used in No Love Lost?

Candy

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Reply with quote  #4 
Yes, this is a bit unclear.
PiarasK

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Reply with quote  #5 
See post #23 or thereabouts in the thread "As promised, a few words from Mr. Hook" in the general discussion.
CPL593H_2HB

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Reply with quote  #6 
i can't believe that is what those people had to wake up and see everyday its horrible.

jeez, it wasn't THAT bad tat84, you had to have been there really

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scarlettohara

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Reply with quote  #7 
I lived in Manchester for 38 years, the scenes from Manchester in that film were not necessarily given a date.  Some of the footage was from the 1950's.  A lot of terrace houses were knocked down - In 1965 I walked through the rubble to Loreto Convent in Moss Side when I was 12 years old, for 5 years.  Moss Side is near where Hulme was built years later.  I know MCR, and not much of it was like the film portrayed it.  We lived in an area of Stretford, about 3 miles from Moss Side, south MCR, and it wasn't at all like that.  The areas that were terraced houses weren't that big anyway, and were not very far from the city centre, from what I know.  

Steve was from Macclesfield, and he described visiting MCR - recollections from childhood, and he was obviously very impressionable, as anyone would be coming from the countryside to a big city. 

Barny was from Salford which isn't MCR.  For him to say he didnt see a tree until he was, whatever age he said he was, was probably true, but MCR and Salford does have trees, and many parks.  Maybe Barny didn't travel very far from his grandmother's house, who knows.  (The bus services were and always were very good in MCR, its a left wing city).  It was certainly not the MCR I knew and we weren't rich by any means. We were poor too.

Salford is or was more run down, and did have rows and rows of terrace houses.  I just don't buy that it was like that for everyone because it was not.  And Ian owning a house aged 21 or whatever was lucky to be able to afford it.  Who in this day and age can buy a house at that age, and it was hard to do that back then also.  All the portrayals make it look like Ian had nothing at home, but he did, and it isn't all depressing like its portrayed.

The shot of Salford Grammar School didn't look like a bomb site.  Barney if he was brought up by his grandparents would have had a very old Salford experience, we don't know where his parents were, he doesn't tell us.  I am Irish myself and my parents were not in the war, they were in Ireland, I was born in 1953 in England.  

You wouldn't have known the war had happened in our family in MCR except for the fact that All Our Yesterdays was on once a week with war footage.  It simply didn't touch our family.  A neighbour who was also Irish had fought in the war, and thats all we knew, 'Paddy had fought in the war'.  We lived very close to a war memorial and every 11th November there were parades etc, and it still seemed very remote from us.  In my opinion that film does not represent MCR to me.

Martin Hannett was also brought up in a very poor area in MCR, and he was a Catholic.  He too went to a Grammar School and then onto university in MCR, after working in a laboratory.  So... I don't think anyone can believe that MCR was the MCR so few people recall.  There are millions of people living there. There is of course some truth in what is portrayed, but I would take it with a pinch of salt.  Think more of Coronation Street and the strong women in that, thats Salford! Manchester! or whatever you want to call it.

And the poverty, which MCR and Salford compared to others places did have, look at what it created.  Many places in this world worst than MCR/Salford, thats for sure.
CPL593H_2HB

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlettohara


Steve was from Macclesfield, and he described visiting MCR - recollections from childhood, and he was obviously very impressionable, as anyone would be coming from the countryside to a big city. 
I wouldn't exactly describe Macclesfield as 'countryside' it's no Manchester for sure, but it was a miniature version with it's heavy industry, mills and terraces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlettohara
Barny was from Salford which isn't MCR.  For him to say he didn't see a tree until he was, whatever age he said he was, was probably true, but MCR and Salford does have trees, and many parks.
 Totally agree, Princess Parkway running through Moss Side towards Southern Cemetery (and Southern Cemetery itself) was awash with trees on both sides and in the middle of the carriageway, not to mention Hough End and the YMCA land (Montgomery House)


Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlettohara
You wouldn't have known the war had happened in our family in MCR except for the fact that All Our Yesterdays was on once a week with war footage.  It simply didn't touch our family.  A neighbour who was also Irish had fought in the war, and thats all we knew, 'Paddy had fought in the war'.  We lived very close to a war memorial and every 11th November there were parades etc, and it still seemed very remote from us.  In my opinion that film does not represent MCR to me.
 not sure of the relevance to the Documentary, having had a grandfather and a father serve in each war it was relevant to this Mancunian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlettohara
Martin Hannett was also brought up in a very poor area in MCR, and he was a Catholic.
 Is Martin's religion of any significance other than the Factory's management having the nickname the catholic mafia, what with Tony, Martin, Rob (can't remember if Alan was) all being catholic (as am I, well at least brought up as) there's a lovely plaque on the wall dedicated to Rob in his (and what was my) local church in Woodhouse Park.
I was interviewed about this for a book on Factory and the Catholic angle - quite simply there wasn't one, just a hopeful author searching for something new.

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