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LittleBoy

New Dawn Fades
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Reply with quote  #26 
There's nothing funny about that. Intimate knowledge of the band's wardrobe and hairdressing habits are crucial for the correct dating of unspecified pictures and footage. Just wait till we add a page to the website detailing which band member had a haircut on which dates between June '79 and May '80. 
Grendel

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Reply with quote  #27 
Sorry, I didn't mean that noticing the clothes was funny I meant that Peter wearing the same clothes for both was funny.
Wallflower

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Reply with quote  #28 

Alright, new video up.



FageOner's 2014 remaster of the rehearsals. Included in the video is the missing "No Love Lost" from the March 1979 rehearsals. The song should be available on Fage's blog soon enough.


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fage

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Reply with quote  #29 
Not sure that this video is right when it comes to the copyright.
I posted some rehearsals few years ago and got threats from Hooky or his mate.

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Wallflower

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Reply with quote  #30 
I certainly hope that does not happen, fage. The only audio that has any immediate copyright danger is "Ceremony," because of its official release. All that I have released in that video has already been made public, either recently or in the past
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Reply with quote  #31 
It's strange but threats was for first 6 tracks from this video
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lee

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Reply with quote  #32 
Re official release - "In A Lonely Place" (Take 4) is on the Record Store Day 2011 12", and the "Pictures In My Mind" tracks are available for sale via the Hacienda Records website.
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Wallflower

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Reply with quote  #33 
Haven't heard anything so far
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Marko

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Reply with quote  #34 

I'm not keen on trying to integrate a Wiki page into the site as we'd end up with conflicting information. Quite often someone will email me telling me about a gig JD played which isn't on JD central and I have to dig back through 15 years of emails to find out why we removed it from the site. If we had a Wiki it would lead to conflicting information and uncontrolled changes. Or to put it more honestly - more work for me.

I would suggest anyone who has anything to add on the rehearsals issue chips in here and then Fage edits his opening post accordingly. Then, when everyone is happy it's finished I'll transpose the info to a new page on the site.
fage

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Reply with quote  #35 
Ok, I've fixed my post again.
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Toby

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Reply with quote  #36 

Has this got anything to do with the price of fish?

A nugget about Kevin Hewick on his Wikipedia page saying:

The Factory years[edit]
Newly added to the Factory roster, Hewick had a recording session in June 1980 with producer Martin Hannett in Graveyard Studios, where he recorded two tracks ("Haystack", released on From Brussels with Love compilation in 1981, and "A Piece of Fate") with the three surviving members of Joy Division, a month after the death of Ian Curtis and just prior to their adopting the name New Order.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Hewick


I wondered if the Joy Division survivors might be there tidying up some of their tracks? Ceremony and In a Lonely a Place as featured on the Heart and Soul box set is credited to May 1980 so maybe they were doing something else in June?
lee

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Reply with quote  #37 
I'd more likely put that as the first New Order rehearsal so to speak - wasn't it Tony Wilson's idea to put Kevin forward as a possible replacement for Ian?
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Marko

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Reply with quote  #38 

The Rehearsals page is now up http://www.joydiv.org/rehearsals.htm Well done Fage!

I did remove the Western Works bit though

Marko
truth

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee
I'd more likely put that as the first New Order rehearsal so to speak - wasn't it Tony Wilson's idea to put Kevin forward as a possible replacement for Ian?


Apparently they went into rehearsals almost immediately, at a loss for anything else to do.
Wallflower

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Reply with quote  #40 
I think that link is broken, Marko
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Marko

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Reply with quote  #41 
Fixed

Thanks for letting me know
350125

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Reply with quote  #42 
Respect and gratitude to fage & Marko for their top new page. Great to see all this info collated at last - and I'm sure this ain't the end of it. 
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johnny23

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Reply with quote  #43 
[thumb]

Top Work with the Rehearsals Page ,An Excellent addition to this Site.

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Keef

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Reply with quote  #44 
Does the Malcolm Whitehead film need including? I think it only includes Shadowplay though.
truth

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Reply with quote  #45 
It has an excerpt of some unknown track that sounds a bit like ICB (similar two note bass line).
ravachol

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Reply with quote  #46 
Very interesting, twenty4hours. I've seen this photo 200 times and I've never seen what you have seen, although it is so obvious.
Nearly all vocal-microphones, even the cheaper ones and even back then weren't "hard-wired", the cable wasn't an integral part of the microphone. They mostly had XLR-connectors like the most widespread dynamic vocal-microphone of all times, the Shure SM-58. Only microphones for the amateur reel-to-reel recorder target market had integral-cables. They might be decent quality-wise, they simply hadn't to face the kind of abuse, vocal-mics have.

But I don't think Ian used this reel-to-reel recorder microphone as his vocal-microphone.
It is not one microphone, it is a stereo set-up.

They used two microphone-stands to record the "room-sound". Look at the micro-stand to the left of Ian. Same microphone.

This is a method bands used and use to record songs if they don't own a multitrack-recording device or if they just want to record their performance without much hassle (overdubbing, recording different instruments one at a time, using 5 or more microphones just to record the drums etc.)

1978/9 affordable 4-track or 8-track tape-recorders which allowed overdubbing and mixing after recording were not widespread.
So you just used a stereo-tapedeck or reel-to-reel and two microphones and recorded the room sound: the unamplified drum-set, the bass-amp, the guitar-amp and the voice, which was a vocal-mic connected to a small PA-System (a kind of amplified small mixer with two speakers, most had an inbuild reverb-effect).


I'm pretty sure Ian had a kind of PA / a special amp and speakers just for his voice and an ordinary vocal-microphone like a Shure SM 58 or something similar.

He's just posing in this picture as if he would use one of these micros.
If he would have, he couldn't hear his own voice while recording / performing against the amplified guitar, the bass and Stephen's drums. These mics are just connected to the tape-recorder, not to any kind of amp.
And if these microphones would have been connected to an amp, the feedback would have been unbearable. Vocal-mics are unidirectional to prevent feedbacks, these microphones aren't because they are made to record not just what's directly in front of them and supress everything else like vocal-mics.

Dirk

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imkc1

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Reply with quote  #47 
^^^wow! Thanks for explaining all that!! Very informative esp. for someone like me who is in "no teknik" on the how of how they did it. Thanks! :-)
porfirio

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Reply with quote  #48 
thanx for posting - the early versions of a means to an end (one of my all time faves) are reallly influenced by iggy pop - you can hear IC trying to imitate one of his heroes... obv the version in Closer is completely different...you can hear martin hannets' magic touch
also the first punk takes are amazing
really this rehersals are a piece of history
Phildo

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Reply with quote  #49 

Not so sure, Dirk - depending on the sensitivity of the mics, input gain to the recorder and the volume of the PA, they could have been used for rudimentary PA work.  My take on what is happening - bearing in mind Bernard's affinity with electronics - is that they're recording the vocals to one side of a stereo tape (let's say left), through the mic Ian's using, while the other side (right) is capturing the sound of the band in the room.  Ian's mic could be output to the PA via the left output from the reel-to-reel (either from tape, assuming it has a combined record-and-replay head or just straight through the machine via a record monitor output) which would enable him to monitor his vocal.  Pretty nifty way of capturing a rough rehearsal with clear vocals.  on playback, they could just listen to the recording in mono by playing it through a mixer.  Place the speaker close enough to Ian for him to hear, yet far enough away from the other mic so the band drown it out, and you could end up with a pretty passable recording

Alternatively - and this is just complete conjecture - they could be doing this PLUS Bernard may have been able to set one side of the machine up (bit of tape over one side of the erase head if there are separate record & replay heads) and botch a bit of tape echo for rehearsals.  Certainly wouldn't have been beyond his know-how!


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ravachol

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Reply with quote  #50 
I hardly doubt that they did it this way. Just read Sumners book. Ian had a PA just since they first rehearsed. They pretty soon bought a new one 'cause his somehow sounded distorted. They used the first for guitars then.
I've used all these techniques you describe when I was 13 and had my first 3-head reel-to-reel in 1976. But never in a rehearsal situation and I don't know any band that did.
All the published rehearsal tapes from Joy Division, most famous the versions of Ceremony and IALP are stereo microphoned recordings of amplifiers, drums and a PA for the vocals, maybe some of the drums and the synths.

No singer I can think of, who has used even budget dynamic vocal mics like the Shure SM58 and a PA with a reverb would like to hear himself through that tape-recorder mics without reverb and tone shaping possibilities.
Bernard might have put together his own synth, but to use tape delay or at higher speeds tape reverb the way you describe it: I hardly doubt it. It simply doesn't make sense regarding the equipment they had at hands in their rehearsal room.

And as I've mentioned before: using these mics or one of them would cause an unbearable amount of feedback due to the omnidirectional characteristics of these mics if they would have been amplified through speakers in the same room.

Dirk


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